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Old 01-11-2013, 12:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Firstly, you really need to start using paragraphs. It was REALLY hard to read that.

Secondly, learning to spin by 'doing what feels natural' and 'figuring it out yourself' is horrible advice. Do not listen to this advice please.

You should be learning to spin by finding out how to create a smooth spin (eg - watch one of the free snowboard addiction videos on spinning), then practicing to recreate the movement correctly.

You see, I'm referring more to learning to spin on a "box" by experimenting with what works for you .Proper spins require a proper skill set first. Obviously more things play into account to spin off a jump such as your "set up carve" "platform" "release" all that, but! Lets be serious in order to perform a 720 wizard spin on a box it basically forces you to learn these skills without really thinking about them it's near impossible to spin a jerky rotation over 360 on a box because its a much smaller scale and different circumstance.

The list to remember for the perfect spin on SA taut me how to spin backside but what I found is because there's so many things to remember it becomes more complex than it is... Now when just fooling around seshing with your buddy's pushing each other, your creating for yourself not only your unique style, but a way to progress faster. Fooling around pushing yourself to get that next rotation on a box really refines All the skills found in the SA videos ( I own them) to a much less intimidating scale because ,the take off is smaller, because you learn to have a fluent release, because naturally you learn edge control, aswell spin flat because if your use an edge on box you bail.

Not saying to go in completely blind with no plan, just saying one needs to experience progression within their selfs in order to achieve greater... Haha you think pro riders 10 years ago went on the Internet for tips? Hell no everything was from experience. Just having fun.

I ride a small hill with a dedicated park which has a rope so I can get like 50 park runs in night if I wanted, obviously if you ride less frequently on a big resort that requires you take a lift for 15 min to ride 3 park features your going to want to know exactly what your doing AKA mesmerize the SA videos hehe.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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You see, I'm referring more to learning to spin on a "box" by experimenting with what works for you .Proper spins require a proper skill set first. Obviously more things play into account to spin off a jump such as your "set up carve" "platform" "release" all that, but! Lets be serious in order to perform a 720 wizard spin on a box it basically forces you to learn these skills without really thinking about them it's near impossible to spin a jerky rotation over 360 on a box because its a much smaller scale and different circumstance.

The list to remember for the perfect spin on SA taut me how to spin backside but what I found is because there's so many things to remember it becomes more complex than it is... Now when just fooling around seshing with your buddy's pushing each other, your creating for yourself not only your unique style, but a way to progress faster. Fooling around pushing yourself to get that next rotation on a box really refines All the skills found in the SA videos ( I own them) to a much less intimidating scale because ,the take off is smaller, because you learn to have a fluent release, because naturally you learn edge control, aswell spin flat because if your use an edge on box you bail.

Not saying to go in completely blind with no plan, just saying one needs to experience progression within their selfs in order to achieve greater... Haha you think pro riders 10 years ago went on the Internet for tips? Hell no everything was from experience. Just having fun.

I ride a small hill with a dedicated park which has a rope so I can get like 50 park runs in night if I wanted, obviously if you ride less frequently on a big resort that requires you take a lift for 15 min to ride 3 park features your going to want to know exactly what your doing AKA mesmerize the SA videos hehe.
I can't agree with you on this one. I think you happened to get the whole 'spin onto a box' thing to work for you, but it's not going to work for a vast majority of people.

The spin initiation for boxes and jumps is similar, but the rest of riding a box is totally different. For most people you're going to confuse them if you tell them to use a box to learn to spin. If anything I'd bet using a box to learn to spin makes their spin technique worse and they'll learn slower.

I'd actually advise people to go the opposite way, by learning spins on flatground and jumps first then taking it to boxes and rails because then they're learning correct spin execution that they can instantly apply to every other spin trick.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I think one thing we can agree on though is the importance of riding with a good old pal ready to criticize you and tell you what your doing wrong aswell as offer advise on what to try differenty next time. That and to smack you inline when your style is wack! Make your buddy your coach!

Still belive reading a bunch of stuff of how to do somthing may help a bit with understanding the principle. But it really all comes down to applying what you read in a way you yourself can understand and explain. For me I fully understand the connection of rotation between boxes and jumps. Though watching the SA videos left me aware of release, without the knolage of how it feels it was a step that took some deep thinking. Connecting skills from other aspects of riding helped me link the situations together I realize " holy cow there actually the same motion!"

Also bailing is a part of progression, which is why taking steps to reduce injury such as Ariel awareness classes greatly increase your rate of progression by letting you be able to go try it again.

Everything is possible if you have your head in the right place and want to make it happen. Haldor Helgason

No matter what pretend you land the trick, visualize, landing the trick even if you fall, take it easy. Nev Lapwood
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I think one thing we can agree on though is the importance of riding with a good old pal ready to criticize you and tell you what your doing wrong aswell as offer advise on what to try differenty next time. That and to smack you inline when your style is wack! Make your buddy your coach!

Still belive reading a bunch of stuff of how to do somthing may help a bit with understanding the principle. But it really all comes down to applying what you read in a way you yourself can understand and explain. For me I fully understand the connection of rotation between boxes and jumps. Though watching the SA videos left me aware of release, without the knolage of how it feels it was a step that took some deep thinking. Connecting skills from other aspects of riding helped me link the situations together I realize " holy cow there actually the same motion!"

Also bailing is a part of progression, which is why taking steps to reduce injury such as Ariel awareness classes greatly increase your rate of progression by letting you be able to go try it again.

Everything is possible if you have your head in the right place and want to make it happen. Haldor Helgason

No matter what pretend you land the trick, visualize, landing the trick even if you fall, take it easy. Nev Lapwood
I'm not sure why you suddenly went into all that visualization and progression stuff, it's kind of a totally different topic.

I think you're missing the point here. I'm not saying your tactic doesn't work for you because it seems it does.

I'm saying you're an exception because of a certain set of circumstances that you're in where you happened to get x and y to click but couldn't figure out z until you did it on a box.

The mistake 99% of people make when giving snowboard trick advice is they forget that the people they give advice to are in a different situation to them. You have to look at it from the eyes and experience of the person going into it, not your own experience.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:10 AM   #15 (permalink)
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TBH I was just really bored and took this opportunity to practice my English and social rambling for my Diplomas coming up XD... But seriously linking previous knowledge to new ideas is the shit! Which is why in the end you have to learn things yourself. No amount of reading can make you perfectly land a trick the first time. You have to be able to visualize and instinctively feel the trick before you even attempt it! Understanding is one thing, applying is another.

Why the sudden change of topic, you can give a man meal, or you can teach him how to fish...

I'm not just trying to help this guy learn 360s I'm trying to teach this guy a new way of approaching any new trick as a beginner.

Similar to the education system gradually teaching you things so you can apply them in multiple situations which in many cases applies to learning a entire new topic!(trick) certain aspects of riding will help any number of people pull from what they already know to apply into there building knolls he of snowboard physics!!!

Just planting a seed!!!
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The funny thing is I actually do agree with your concept of learning (building certain skills ie. spinning and linking it to new tricks) and have recommended it to others before, even though I disagree with how you're applying it in regards to the whole box spinning learning thing.

Warning, serious educational content below this not related to snowboarding:

Since you enjoy psychology type stuff, I'll add something you might find interesting to dig into on google since I'm kind of a huge nerd when it comes to learning psychology and behavioural effects

The 'teach a man to fish' concept works in theory, but never in person.

It's something marketers stumbled upon when they practiced sales and crafting effective marketing offers to customers.

In reality no one is searching for how to fish, they just want a fish without the work. So basically if you try to teach people to fish they'll instead find someone selling fish.

If you want to teach a man to fish, you have to sell fish and somehow sneak in the 'how to fish' portion on the backend.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:44 AM   #17 (permalink)
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This is pretty deep for a 360. Its quickly become more of a stock trick and I never thought a bunch about breaking it down when we taught it to the team kids. (We just started with a small jump and had them spin looking over their shoulder, core engaged, spotting the landing)

Popping 180s all over the place is a good place to start. front side 180's and then switch 180s (the 2nd half of the 360). Flat land 360s and spins (as in that 2nd video) are typically the next step. We also would take the kids out of their boards and have them stand like they were strapped into their board approaching the take-off. From there we would have them do a little pre-wind and jump while doing the 360 motion engaging their core and using their arms and head to look 360 for the spin and spot the landing.

Personally I think telling the rider to look at the take off typically leads to them stopping their spin (years of coaching gymnastics speaking here)..... Look over the shoulder for the landing and lock into that. Get the action and muscle memory in your head before taking it to snow. Jump off things (without your board and practice 360s). Ledges, retaining walls, picnic tables, etc...

Practice (first without, then with the board) standing on flat ground (in your living room, bedroom, on the mtn etc) jumping and doing 360s over exaggerating the motions (swing your arms into it as a little wind up). Muscle memory will help. You should be able to pop a 360 off just about anything. Doing it off a kicker of any size should be easier as you have more air and time to get the spin around at various speeds.

If you can take an old board, duct tape the edges and get on a trampoline.

Bottom line, committing to the trick will make all the difference. Good luck and post a follow up video.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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This is pretty deep for a 360. Its quickly become more of a stock trick and I never thought a bunch about breaking it down when we taught it to the team kids. (We just started with a small jump and had them spin looking over their shoulder, core engaged, spotting the landing)
Core engaged is key. The rest of your advice is good, too
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