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Old 01-22-2013, 12:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
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hmmm, not sure i understand what you are saying. His words are "we can spin using counter rotations" and then the video shows that you would start a front 1 with your hands forward, as you jump your lower body switches around and your back shoulder comes forward. He says its good for jumping onto boxes and rails to stop your rotation.

I don't see a difference from what was shown in the video vs what he said. Again i could very easily be wrong but it seems like what he said is what they show.
hktrdr is talking about me having an argument with ppl about using "counter-rotation" in mogul runs...like 2 years ago!!!

Some ppl were saying you have to use "CASI" or whatever techniques to initiate turns in packed moguls "in theory", but there's no video proof I remember of. And all videos on Youtube I've ever found on rad mogul riding uses couter-rotation. I'm still waiting on that video of perfect turns through packed moguls and still haven't seen one. The closest one iirc is one that Snowolf posted, where the dude like travels all the way across the mogul hill and does the "anticipatory turn" thing. So IN THEORY, you can do this after each mogul if you practice enough or something. Whatever. I'll do it my way and you spend 10 years to perfect your way...if ever.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:03 AM   #12 (permalink)
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This has been debated ad nauseam. rasmasyean keeps expounding his 'counter-rotation' concept that flies in the face of physics. Wolfie has corrected/called him out on this numerous times (e.g., here, here, and here), but he keeps giving people the same terrible advice.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:08 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Actually counter-rotation is a legit technique for creating rotations 180 degrees or under and I know firsthand that Nev teaches counter-rotation.

In regards to spinning off a jump you typically don't use counter-rotation, but you use counter-rotation all the time for certain 180s off rails, boxes and for shiftys as well.
As I said, there is (used to be?) some confusion about terminology - wolfie summed this up pretty well previously.
But this is a terminology issue, not a question of technique - I have all of Nev's videos and he does not advocate what rasmasyean describes (the "release the twist ... in the opposite direction" bullshit).
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
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As I said, there is (used to be?) some confusion about terminology - wolfie summed this up pretty well previously.
But this is a terminology issue, not a question of technique - I have all of Nev's videos and he does not advocate what rasmasyean describes (the "release the twist ... in the opposite direction" bullshit).
Whatever you say. I've "released my twist" on both flatground, box, AND jump to do a 180 before so it works for me and that's all I have to say!
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Whatever you say. I've "released my twist" on both flatground, box, AND jump to do a 180 before so it works for me and that's all I have to say!
Whatever you say - you have not provided any proof of you (or anybody else for that matter) doing this to back up that claim.
But as wolfie has said many, many times: Feel free to ride in any way that you want. But if you continue to advise people to use non-sense techniques some of us will continue to call you out.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:53 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Yep, terminology difference.

Also, I have no idea what rasmasyean is talking about with his 'release the rotation into a counter-rotation' thing. He's definitely wrong in his description. Proper counter rotation (which is what I'm assuming Justin was talking about) is independent to rotation and it's just a shift of your body in the air.

I'm assuming what rasmasyean is trying to describe (since what he describes makes no sense and seems physically impossible) is actually him rotating into part of a 180 then using counter-rotation to shifty the remaining 180 and landing without un-doing the counter-rotation.

Ah the joys of complicated terminology. The funny thing is I've always found is people learn faster without using terminology and relating techniques to movements they can immediately understand and picture.

ie - front boardslide to regular is similar to bowling a ball down the lane with your rear hand

Instructors are the ones who complicate it to describe it to other instructors.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:15 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yep, terminology difference.

Also, I have no idea what rasmasyean is talking about with his 'release the rotation into a counter-rotation' thing. He's definitely wrong in his description. Proper counter rotation (which is what I'm assuming Justin was talking about) is independent to rotation and it's just a shift of your body in the air.

I'm assuming what rasmasyean is trying to describe (since what he describes makes no sense and seems physically impossible) is actually him rotating into part of a 180 then using counter-rotation to shifty the remaining 180 and landing without un-doing the counter-rotation.

Ah the joys of complicated terminology. The funny thing is I've always found is people learn faster without using terminology and relating techniques to movements they can immediately understand and picture.

ie - front boardslide to regular is similar to bowling a ball down the lane with your rear hand

Instructors are the ones who complicate it to describe it to other instructors.
Yeah, I suspect that is probably more or less what he is doing. But he is terrible at describing it - mostly because he refuses to use standard terminology.

In some sense terminology is just semantics - but it is helpful to stick with consensus/established language when discussing things.
And one of the key aspects of teaching/coaching is describe things accurately, consistently, and in a way that the student can follow and understand. So unless there is a really good reason not to, I think it is worthwhile to follow the AASI terminology.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:30 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Yeah, I suspect that is probably more or less what he is doing. But he is terrible at describing it - mostly because he refuses to use standard terminology.

In some sense terminology is just semantics - but it is helpful to stick with consensus/established language when discussing things.
And one of the key aspects of teaching/coaching is describe things accurately, consistently, and in a way that the student can follow and understand. So unless there is a really good reason not to, I think it is worthwhile to follow the AASI terminology.
I'm CASI trained so I'm stuck with using the term 'counter-rotation' haha, it's just how I'm used to describing it.

I think terminology is a tricky discussion. It's required to some extent, particularly once you get into advanced techniques, but I'm always intrigued by learning studies that find that throwing out terminology and just finding relatable subject matter shows far bigger increases in learning speed than describing using terminology.

I think the tricky thing is if you wanted to do it that way you'd literally have to custom tailor all your teaching examples and terms for every single student using custom subject matter which isn't really feasible for most snowboard instructors, especially not in a group lesson.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:16 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I'm assuming what rasmasyean is trying to describe (since what he describes makes no sense and seems physically impossible) is actually him rotating into part of a 180 then using counter-rotation to shifty the remaining 180 and landing without un-doing the counter-rotation.
No, that's correcting an under-winded 180 initiated by rotation...using last-second counter-rotation. bleh.

Here, you know when you walk? You use counter-rotation to a smaller degree. Your left foot forward, right hand forward, right foot back, left hand back. I don't know what AASI/CASI calls it, but I say your upper vs. lower body is "counter-rotated".

This is a natural biomechincal sequence to enable efficient use of bipedal locomotion. An analogy to snowboarding is a 180. Except the snowboard is pretty heavy so you have to swing your arms/shoulders MORE! Naturally, depending on your upper vs. lower body mass, everyone requires a different "arm-flail" to result in a complete 180.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:31 AM   #20 (permalink)
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No, that's correcting an under-winded 180 initiated by rotation...using last-second counter-rotation. bleh.

Here, you know when you walk? You use counter-rotation to a smaller degree. Your left foot forward, right hand forward, right foot back, left hand back. I don't know what AASI/CASI calls it, but I say your upper vs. lower body is "counter-rotated".

This is a natural biomechincal sequence to enable efficient use of bipedal locomotion. An analogy to snowboarding is a 180. Except the snowboard is pretty heavy so you have to swing your arms/shoulders MORE! Naturally, depending on your upper vs. lower body mass, everyone requires a different "arm-flail" to result in a complete 180.
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