Spins Help - Page 4 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
SnowboardingForum.com is the premier Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-23-2013, 06:19 PM   #31 (permalink)
Resident Snowman
 
aiidoneus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 585
Default

Step 1 : watch the snowboard addiction videos
Step 2 : never ever come back to this thread

Case closed.
aiidoneus is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-23-2013, 06:32 PM   #32 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
seant46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Winterpeg
Posts: 758
Default

I'm just grumpy I havent ridden in weeks
seant46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 07:37 PM   #33 (permalink)
Drunk with power...er beer.
 
Donutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 4,714
Blog Entries: 225
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
I'm having trouble visualizing what you are doing here. A prewinding generally is used in a way that helps you rotate the board in the direction of the unwind. So if I get what you are describing, you prewind, then when you release, you spin the board in the direction you prewind and opposite of the unwind rotation?
Thinking about it, the sequence of events may be slightly different than what I'm thinking (although the result is a frontside 180 on the snow). Try it this way:

I rotate my upper body CCW as an anticipatory prewind. Then I unweight my board slightly to prevent edge catch, and rotate my board CCW as my upper body stops rotating. Result: riding in switch.

If I'd had the sense god gave a fencepost I'd have asked one of the guys to videotape it today on Cypress. We had 3 different people with cameras (ok, I was one of them...). Well maybe on Friday I'll get poutanen to tape one.
__________________

INNUENDO:
Italian enema.
Donutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 10:51 AM   #34 (permalink)
Resident Snowman
 
aiidoneus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 585
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Was that directed at me?

I have zero trouble doing and teaching 1's and 3's. I just can't visualize what Donutz is doing.
I wasn't trying to be mean. But for the OP and others learning spins, this thread has got out of hand as you mention later. Time to get back to basics and move on.

Rasm can post a video or stfu :-)
aiidoneus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 08:26 PM   #35 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,966
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donutz View Post
Thinking about it, the sequence of events may be slightly different than what I'm thinking (although the result is a frontside 180 on the snow). Try it this way:

I rotate my upper body CCW as an anticipatory prewind. Then I unweight my board slightly to prevent edge catch, and rotate my board CCW as my upper body stops rotating. Result: riding in switch.

If I'd had the sense god gave a fencepost I'd have asked one of the guys to videotape it today on Cypress. We had 3 different people with cameras (ok, I was one of them...). Well maybe on Friday I'll get poutanen to tape one.
That is what I suspected you are doing. As wolfie said, there is no counter-rotation here at all - unless you are using some counter at the end to stop the rotation/prevent over-rotation.
I think where the confusion comes from is that for the second half of the maneuver your lower body is rotating faster than your upper body, so relative to the lower body if feels like your upper body is rotating CW. But in absolute terms (or relative to the mountain) all parts (upper body, lower body & board) only rotate CCW.

Think about it: By definition between the starting and completing the 180 your upper body, lower body & board all must rotate 180 degrees. The anticipatory rotation accounts for ~90/180 for the upper body, so during the second phase the upper body only has to rotate another 90 degrees, while the lower body and boards still have to complete the entire 180 degree spin.
If any part were to counter-rotate (i.e., spin CW) throughout the maneuver would have the same amount of additional CCW rotation - the total rotation still has to add up to 180 degrees.
An example of the latter would be pre-wind for jumps with more than 1 complete rotation - say, for a 540 CCW you might twist your upper body 90 degrees CW before the jump, so that it subsequently rotates through 630 degrees CCW (it still has to add up to the same total - 540 degrees in this case). However, this is completely unnecessary and pointless for 180s.
hktrdr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 12:47 AM   #36 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 674
Default

I just notices that the 3rd post in this thread has a COUNTER-ROTATION 180 video that describes it. Unfortunately, no one including me noticed it was there.

And I thought the OP asked about BEGINNER 180's. Why are you bringing 100 foot 180's and 360's up? Something wrong with doing a 180 on flat ground or 1 inch box first???
rasmasyean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 12:59 AM   #37 (permalink)
Jed
Veteran Member
 
Jed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Whistler, BC
Posts: 793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmasyean View Post
I just notices that the 3rd post in this thread has a COUNTER-ROTATION 180 video that describes it. Unfortunately, no one including me noticed it was there.

And I thought the OP asked about BEGINNER 180's. Why are you bringing 100 foot 180's and 360's up? Something wrong with doing a 180 on flat ground or 1 inch box first???
You're digging a hole here. You CAN counter-rotate a 180 off a jump, the problem is you don't want to and shouldn't be doing it that way off jumps in 99 out of 100 cases.

I watched the whole video to be sure, but as I suspected, the SA video even says that counter-rotated 180s are used mainly on rails and boxes to stop rotation at 180 and 180 back out.

Also it says counter-rotated 180s are an ADVANCED technique. You should not be doing that right away, particularly off jumps.

If you knew park progression you'd know that you almost always want to use rotation, not counter-rotation to spin a 180 off a jump.

It's very rare, specific circumstances when you'll be using counter-rotation for a 180 on a jump because every single park rider will tell you it's way more stable to use rotation, not counter-rotation for 180s off jumps.

This is exactly why you shouldn't be giving park advice. You don't have the skillset and progression in the park to draw your advice from. You're mainly guessing without knowing how progression works.

On this note, getting tired of people pointing me to SA videos to prove a point that's wrong. Trust me, I know Nev personally and he isn't teaching people to counter-rotate their 180s off jumps when they're starting out in the park.
__________________
I teach snowboarding via step-by-step videos lessons at Snomie.com - How To Snowboard Videos, Snowboard Tips & Snowboard Lessons

Last edited by Jed; 01-25-2013 at 01:01 AM.
Jed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 09:39 AM   #38 (permalink)
Drunk with power...er beer.
 
Donutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 4,714
Blog Entries: 225
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hktrdr View Post
I think where the confusion comes from is that for the second half of the maneuver your lower body is rotating faster than your upper body, so relative to the lower body if feels like your upper body is rotating CW. But in absolute terms (or relative to the mountain) all parts (upper body, lower body & board) only rotate CCW.
I'd have to agree with this.
__________________

INNUENDO:
Italian enema.
Donutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 01:49 AM   #39 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed View Post
You're digging a hole here. You CAN counter-rotate a 180 off a jump, the problem is you don't want to and shouldn't be doing it that way off jumps in 99 out of 100 cases.

I watched the whole video to be sure, but as I suspected, the SA video even says that counter-rotated 180s are used mainly on rails and boxes to stop rotation at 180 and 180 back out.

Also it says counter-rotated 180s are an ADVANCED technique. You should not be doing that right away, particularly off jumps.

If you knew park progression you'd know that you almost always want to use rotation, not counter-rotation to spin a 180 off a jump.

It's very rare, specific circumstances when you'll be using counter-rotation for a 180 on a jump because every single park rider will tell you it's way more stable to use rotation, not counter-rotation for 180s off jumps.

This is exactly why you shouldn't be giving park advice. You don't have the skillset and progression in the park to draw your advice from. You're mainly guessing without knowing how progression works.

On this note, getting tired of people pointing me to SA videos to prove a point that's wrong. Trust me, I know Nev personally and he isn't teaching people to counter-rotate their 180s off jumps when they're starting out in the park.
OP
"I've been trying to do spins lately, and things havent been going well. I know how to do them, I just can't. I seem to freeze up while in the air, or can't finish the turn. This happens a lot when I try to 180 off boxes and such (even though I can easily just air to fakie on the snow), but I can more or less control the 180. Any tips? "

The "off jump" part is something we just got sidetracted from. But this is what he's asking and I answered him with the 2 ways of doing it. He already can do a 180 so he's not very far from an "advanced 180" whatever that means.

And btw, I myself learned to couter-rotate 180's on flat ground WAY before rotating. Why may you ask would I use this "ADVANCED 180" first? Because it was FAST and didn't require a lot of air time AND, like you empasize, I can STOP my 180 without reverting. *I* felt the regular rotated 180 required a bit of timing and even energy to pop when learning and it was really hard for me to get it all the way arround...and when I did, I tend to "spin out" a lot and maybe catch an edge while I was at it. ESPECIALLY when I was going fast or whatever, I never used a rotated 180. At least not in the beginning until I got better with the timing.

"Progression" is not always set in stone. It depends a lot on the person.

Last edited by rasmasyean; 01-26-2013 at 01:53 AM.
rasmasyean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 01:57 AM   #40 (permalink)
Jed
Veteran Member
 
Jed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Whistler, BC
Posts: 793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmasyean View Post
OP
"I've been trying to do spins lately, and things havent been going well. I know how to do them, I just can't. I seem to freeze up while in the air, or can't finish the turn. This happens a lot when I try to 180 off boxes and such (even though I can easily just air to fakie on the snow), but I can more or less control the 180. Any tips? "

The "off jump" part is something we just got sidetracted from. But this is what he's asking and I answered him with the 2 ways of doing it. He already can do a 180 so he's not very far from an "advanced 180" whatever that means.

And btw, I myself learned to couter-rotate 180's on flat ground WAY before rotating. Why may you ask would I use this "ADVANCED 180" first? Because it was FAST and didn't require a lot of air time AND, like you empasize, I can STOP my 180 without reverting. *I* felt the regular rotated 180 required a bit of timing and even energy to pop when learning and it was really hard for me to get it all the way arround...and when I did, I tend to "spin out" a lot and maybe catch an edge while I was at it. ESPECIALLY when I was going fast or whatever, I never used a rotated 180. At least not in the beginning until I got better with the timing.
I swear you have to be trolling right now.

He's trying to 180 off a box, not 180 onto and off a box. In his case he wants to be using rotation not counter-rotation.

We're saying it's an advanced technique because when people like you learn counter-rotation as their method for doing 180s, it messes up their riding and they start using the wrong rotations for the wrong uses, which is exactly what you're doing now.

Just because you decided to learn it the wrong way and ruin your technique because you gave up learning them the proper way (that scales easily into 360s and beyond) doesn't mean you should be advising people to follow in your footsteps.

FYI, you say progression isn't set in stone, but you haven't progressed. Show me a video of your riding and how your amazing learning method of counter-rotated 180s (without learning proper rotation first) has easily let you progress into your super smooth 360s and 540s and I'll believe you.

When every single park rider with experience explains that spins should be learnt a certain way to make progression easy and you come in with a lack of experience in park and say "Nope, I'm right because I do it this way" it makes you look ridiculous.
__________________
I teach snowboarding via step-by-step videos lessons at Snomie.com - How To Snowboard Videos, Snowboard Tips & Snowboard Lessons

Last edited by Jed; 01-26-2013 at 04:15 AM.
Jed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums