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Old 02-02-2013, 01:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default "second faster edge" or just one edge?

i dont even know how to ask this question....
board: k2 podium.
I feel like I know how to put my board on the edge, both when turning and going straight.
But from time to time when I flip the board a bit more into the turn, it's like if I go on a different edge, a faster one, which the first few times would leave me on the floor, as the board seems just to run off my feet.
Now i somehow learned how to manage it, and when it happens I simply adjust my stance or move the board slightly towards the terrain.
At first I had thought board had gone beyond edge and I was running on board's side
then I started to think that could be the "right" edge of the board...
Does this question makes sense to you? i feel like I cant manage the speed that "second edge" has. At the same time, I am sure the board is on the edge when I turn in my usual way...
I am really sorry if this question makes no sense....
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't fully understand your question, maybe because it wasn't clearly stated but I do have a general idea of what you're talking about. What I understood from your post is (correct me if I'm wrong) that you are curious about when leaning hard you seem to gain more speed? Maybe not necessarily leaning but you are really digging in your edge? If this is what you are trying to explain in your post I understand. It is just the way the boards are made. It is a universal thing with all boards. For example I ride a Rome Agent and I get the same reaction out of my board. But what is happening is when being on your edge you are on the sharpest point of your metal edge which means, there is little to no resistance on the board to slow it down. It is similar to thinking of it as like a knife. When cutting through a loaf of bread for example the knife will cut better when using the sharp edge opposed to a dull edge. And also you mentioned something about not being able to control speed when you are doing that action. This is because in order to stop and/or slow down you need to be sliding or creating some resistance and like I had said earlier riding an edge hard like that creates little to no drag. So in order to slow down you would need to ease up on your edge a bit and allow the bored to slide until you reach desired speed then you could continue your run. Also you mentioned as well about the board coming out from under you? That may be caused by dull edges. Just get them sharpened and you should be good after that. Sharp edged don't tend to slide out as often as dull ones. Well I hope this helped answer your questions man I wish the best of luck to ya!
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It sounds like you are engaging a carved turn during a skidded turn without actually trying to do it. Learn to harness this skill and the board as it is the "ideal" way to make turns and is easier on the legs.

Just to make sure... do you normally make skidded turns where you hear a scraping noise? Then this "motion" happens and you feel the "second edge" which feels really smooth and fast, similar to gliding on an ice skate? If this is how it feels, then you are simply starting to carve your turns instead of skidding... good for you!

Another good way to tell if you are carving turns is to listen to the sound of the board on the snow. If you hear scraping noise, like trying to put a tiny bit of butter on really dry toast, then you are doing a skidded turn. A carved turn is much more quiet and this skidding noise should be significantly reduced. Try to listen next time!

Another way to tell is to look at your tracks when riding on hardpack snow. Tracks from a skidded turn are pretty wide, anywhere from a foot (30 cm) to a few feet wide, depending on board size and how much you are skidding. WHen you are carving, the track is really thin because only the edge is coming in contact with the snow, so you dig a deep, thin line in the snow.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigmountainVMD View Post
Another way to tell is to look at your tracks when riding on hardpack snow. Tracks from a skidded turn are pretty wide, anywhere from a foot (30 cm) to a few feet wide, depending on board size and how much you are skidding. WHen you are carving, the track is really thin because only the edge is coming in contact with the snow, so you dig a deep, thin line in the snow.
Good on you guys for understanding, cause that question had me doing a !

Just like what Bigmountain says. If you can get under a lift and do turns the whole way down, then go back up and look at your tracks.

The following image is what a carve track looks like:


While this shows a more skidded turn. The skidded track will be anywhere from 6-8" (almost carving) so several feet wide.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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guys,
thanks really a lot. I am sorry the question was
But it's confusing for me, as I had thought I was already using the edge.

Bigmountain, I 100% agree with what you wrote.

Noodle Soup, I didnt mean the board out of my feet sliding downward, but going so fast I couldn't control, while the direction being that of the edge.

As Poutanen said, i think I always did the "almost carving", while thinking I was carving.

the problem I have is that when i engage this "real edge" it seems the board tends to go upward (like following a circle).
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lorcar View Post
guys,
thanks really a lot. I am sorry the question was
But it's confusing for me, as I had thought I was already using the edge.

Bigmountain, I 100% agree with what you wrote.

Noodle Soup, I didnt mean the board out of my feet sliding downward, but going so fast I couldn't control, while the direction being that of the edge.

As Poutanen said, i think I always did the "almost carving", while thinking I was carving.

the problem I have is that when i engage this "real edge" it seems the board tends to go upward (like following a circle).
You almost certainly were using the before (it is difficult to do much on a snowboard without using the edge at all), but did not have the edge fully 'set' (most likely because of a lack of board tilt and/or edge pressure). As a result, the board is side-slipping a bit in turns.
It sounds you are now learning to really engage the edge. What happens then is that the turn is 'made' by the sidecut of the board (your 'following a circle' comment), rather than by you sliding the board around. That would indeed be the beginning of carving.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I guess I ignored there was a multiple way to engage your edge. Basically, I thought that if the board was tilted and not flat, THAT was the edge.
Now I discover "almost carving" and reading old threads "basic carving" vs "dynamic carving"


SO when you are going straight and try to avoid to keep the board flat (there is another thread about this, most people never keep the board flat) is that the real edge or a "quasi" edge?
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lorcar View Post
I guess I ignored there was a multiple way to engage your edge. Basically, I thought that if the board was tilted and not flat, THAT was the edge.
Now I discover "almost carving" and reading old threads "basic carving" vs "dynamic carving"


SO when you are going straight and try to avoid to keep the board flat (there is another thread about this, most people never keep the board flat) is that the real edge or a "quasi" edge?
To engage an edge you tilt the board onto that edge and put pressure on it - that is really the only way. What is happening to you is that you are not doing enough of both/either to get the edge set (i.e., fully engaged) - as a result you lose edge hold and the board is side slipping.
The solution to that is simple: More tilt/edge angle and pressure on the edge (especially the former - most beginners ride with much too little board tilt).
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