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Old 02-08-2013, 01:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default having a few issues with my tree/mogul riding

Hey guys, I recently noticed a few issues with my riding and can't figure out how to correct them.

1. On steep un-groomed terrain (such as hard packed moguls or worse conditions), I tend to get a lot of chatter when I turn on my heel-side and end up needing to scrape a lot of snow as opposed to making good turns. I don't usually have this issue on my toe-side though.

2. In trees where I have to continuously make aggressive turns, I feel that I can scrape quite a bit of speed going on my heel-side turns as I bend my legs and put extra pressure on my heels while turning. However, I usually end up going faster and faster on my toe-side turns, even though I am able to turn fast enough it often puts me in an awkward speed that I'm not comfortable with.

I think my shoulders/hips/knees are aligned with the board during turns but maybe I'm not bending hard enough on toe side or maybe I'm not pressing hard enough on my toes?

Thanks for your helpful tips beforehand!

[edit] just thought of something else. i start to notice that when i'm at the end of a toe-side or heel-side carve, i can usually do a mini-tailpress that can give the board a bit of extra snap in the direction of the turn. I have no idea if this is useful in any way though, but I remember one of the CASI vids talked about utilizing the board flex to be a more aggressive rider. Does this have anything to do with it?

Last edited by Littlebigdreams; 02-08-2013 at 01:21 AM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Please,
what is up unweight and down unweight?
Is the apex of the turn the bit that just precedes you extend and change edges?
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Quite common actually and the leading cause of this is the fact that the human body is designed to flex more on the toeside. When on heelside, we don't have the range of motion in our lower body joints we do when toeside. Heelside chatter is always 90% due to being too stiff.

To help reduce this, use more dynamic movements; especially timing your flexion and extension. Use a down unweight for making your edge changes instead of an up unweight that almost every high level intermediate rider uses. The down unweight allows for earlier and more positive edge engagement early in the turn. As you work the top of the turn, slowly extend to set that edge. As you pass through the apex of the turn, you need begin to flex again. This flexing action makes your legs more loose and this will absorb a lot of that chatter. Anytime chatter happens, bend something! Always get loose to quiet chatter.




Typically, people hesitate on toeside turn initiation and this could be happening to you. The last statement you made also clues us in to where a problem may lay. In trees and bumps, your shoulders should not be aligned with the hips knees and the board. Tree and mogul riding requires the most dynamic riding skill of all. There should be a lot of upper and lower body separation to make these short radius dynamic skidded turns in this environment. Your shoulders should be pointing down the fall line while you allow the lower spine to swivel. The fully aligned turn is not effective enough to control your board in the conditions described. Get more dynamic and allow upper and lower body separation.




This is called using good fore-aft movements and these movements are critical for making smooth, controlled turns on steep terrain. It only takes a lack of fear to straight line a steep, not skill. True skill is being able to make fairly consistent turn shapes on gnarly steeps. Among other thing and the thing the CASI instructor as eluding to is this fore aft movement.

Basically, as we all know when you initiate a turn on steep terrain we need to get more flexed and forward toward the nose. Problem is, the intermediate ride believes this where they need to ride all of the time. Nope! There is a time to be aft on your board and that is steep terrain.

So, shift to the nose to initiate the turn. As the board travels through the turn, before apex, shift your weight aft. This will feel like you squirted the board out ahead of you and you are riding the tail. After apex through the bottom of a turn, you want to be aft to prevent the tail from skidding and it is much more effective to finish a turn while aft.

Hope that helps actually open up more questions for this is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to advanced dynamic riding....
Thanks Snowolf. I definitely think there's something wrong with my heel-side turns. I found this screenshot of me going down a slightly steep terrain - Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

It looks like my body's way too bent? Should I keep my back straight?

Also, I think I understand what you are talking about regarding good fore/aft movements on steep terrains. Currently I seem to do fine in powder conditions, but I slip out on my back foot sometimes when I try the same type of movements on hard packed snow.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
An up unweight is very similar to a pop. Most intermediate riders rise up to switch edges then drop back down into riding position and stay fairly static.

A down unweight is a very similar to a retraction where the rider flexes the legs rapidly and the upper body drops toward the board. When this happens, there is momentary near weightlessness of the board just like the pop that allows for quick, easy edge release and re engagement.

The advantage of the down unweight is the fact that it allows the rider to set their edge early and in a very positive manner in a fully flexed position from which they can slowly extend (rise) through the apex of the turn (fully extended and widest part of the turn). This extension, pressures the edge and increase rate of turn and provides for greater edge hold.

After apex, through the bottom of the turn, the rider starts flexing down again. This movements helps quiet board chatter and skid through the bottom of the turn. As the board crosses the fall line, the rider drops the rest of the way to full flex through a retraction of the legs and the process repeats again.

When the rider uses this correctly with proper timing in conjunction with proper fore-aft movements, the result are incredible for high performance turn on very challenging terrain.
Thanks Snowolf for the explanation. Regarding up unweight and down unweight, I think I am understanding a good part of it but not all of it after you kindly elaborated. The more I re-read what you wrote, I think the more I get the better picture. But I think I could only understand so much today. I will re-read it tomorrow. I regret I really could not grasp the 'pop' bit as well. The other thing is that, I have come across you using the terms extend/ extension and flex/ flexion in your previous posts in other threads. Those terms are so much more easy to understand. Is up unweight the same as extend/ extension, and down unweight the same as flex/ flexion?

I think the problem lies with me. I really could not picture where the apex is, and where the bottom of the turn is in your description without a graphical representation. I thought I knew where those points were but not anymore after reading more on your elaboration. Wolfie do you have a link to a schematic diagram of these points you might have posted previously in the forum? I am sincere. I want to nail down what you are trying to explain. Cheers.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Many thanks for the diagram. It helps a lot.
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