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Old 02-18-2013, 11:01 PM   #41 (permalink)
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it sounds to me like it is -possible- that you had some heel overhang that was popping your board out from underneath you, though that is probably unlikely so here's my advice

1) lean forward, the tendency to lean back is great on the steeps, but this is essentially putting on the brakes and will make it almost impossible to link turns. you need your weight forward as you enter turns, my bet is that you are favoring toeside, which you start with your weight forward, but you are gaining speed too quickly so you go to make that heelside turn and you are instinctively standing up/putting your weight back/braking and landing on your butt as a result.

2) get comfortable. at speed. there is no way to properly navigate most steeps without a certain amount of speed, the only time when you should consider taking a steep slowly/slower is if it is extremely steep or icy. if you find that you are fine with speed, but not necessarily speed on a steep hill, you probably haven't learned to fall properly. watch bob burnquist fall and you'll realize why most people eat it so hard and why that is so unnecessary. you want to slide your falls out, and you want to absorb them as slowly as possible, you do not want to catch yourself/stop yourself instantaneously, especially with your wrist, legs, ankles, ...head...



once you are comfortable with falling and realize that it -will- happen, you need to get comfortable knowing that to progress you need to be comfortable taking on what may feel like more risk. in reality, i'll take a high speed heelside fall on most steeps to a high speed toeside catch on near flat ground anyday.

3) accept that you will have to treat the terrain more seriously and ride dynamically. until you are better, you will have to be more concious of the terrain, the quality of the snow, the turns you are making, the types of turns you are making, and where you are going to make them. you will have to learn to move your weight back and forth as you turn. generally speaking you want your weight forward as you initiate each turn and your weight back as you end it.

4) stop trying to carve. it sounds like you are trying to carve a steep on your heelside at slow speed, which is just asking for a butt-beating the second your board catches any edge. again speed will help you here, you might feel less stable but you are going too slow to carve and your board is probably not stiff enough to handle it. so learn to link skidded turns or skidded stopping turns (not what you think it is, but what your skidded turns -MUST- turn into when you start facing 50 degree plus icy, narrow, rocky terrain)

5) do some less-steep mogul-covered runs as aggressively as possible. this will get you used to being semi-out-of-control of your brakes since the moguls will largely dictate where you can brake, which will let you realize that you don't always have to be in control of your speed. additionally it will teach you how to snowboard dynamically which is the most important thing you need to start progressing. you will learn how to turn properly as well since you will have to have your weight forward as you begin to crest a mogul, and you will probably instinctively turn/brake after each mogul, meaning you will learn to start your turns with your weight forward and finish them with your weight back. this is good stuff and will definitely make the slightly steeper terrain you face more manageable, as your legs, body, and board will find the less dynamic riding much more reasonable.

the best advice i can give you though is to make an effort to keep your weight forward and ride outside your comfort zone so long as you are not endangering anyone else. you will endanger yourself, and you will fall, but you can't get scared or let the pain dictate your future riding. everytime you face a steep you need to be thinking aggressively. its sort of like forcing yourself to jump into a pool of ice cold water. i go through this every season. i approach a steep and instinctively put my weight back and start to slide on my ass/stomach down, and i have to force myself to get my weight forward.

Last edited by wildshoetwt; 02-18-2013 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:44 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Where do you ride? I'm thinking a nice black in Tahoe or Seattle will make most people scared by their 6th day.

I rode blacks my 3rd day but it was at Bear Mountain. It's essentially a mild blue.

Was staring down double blacks in Seattle and you wonder how the snow sticks at all.
I ride at Stevens
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:50 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wildshoetwt View Post
it sounds to me like it is -possible- that you had some heel overhang that was popping your board out from underneath you, though that is probably unlikely so here's my advice

1) lean forward, the tendency to lean back is great on the steeps, but this is essentially putting on the brakes and will make it almost impossible to link turns. you need your weight forward as you enter turns, my bet is that you are favoring toeside, which you start with your weight forward, but you are gaining speed too quickly so you go to make that heelside turn and you are instinctively standing up/putting your weight back/braking and landing on your butt as a result.

2) get comfortable. at speed. there is no way to properly navigate most steeps without a certain amount of speed, the only time when you should consider taking a steep slowly/slower is if it is extremely steep or icy. if you find that you are fine with speed, but not necessarily speed on a steep hill, you probably haven't learned to fall properly. watch bob burnquist fall and you'll realize why most people eat it so hard and why that is so unnecessary. you want to slide your falls out, and you want to absorb them as slowly as possible, you do not want to catch yourself/stop yourself instantaneously, especially with your wrist, legs, ankles, ...head...



once you are comfortable with falling and realize that it -will- happen, you need to get comfortable knowing that to progress you need to be comfortable taking on what may feel like more risk. in reality, i'll take a high speed heelside fall on most steeps to a high speed toeside catch on near flat ground anyday.

3) accept that you will have to treat the terrain more seriously and ride dynamically. until you are better, you will have to be more concious of the terrain, the quality of the snow, the turns you are making, the types of turns you are making, and where you are going to make them. you will have to learn to move your weight back and forth as you turn. generally speaking you want your weight forward as you initiate each turn and your weight back as you end it.

4) stop trying to carve. it sounds like you are trying to carve a steep on your heelside at slow speed, which is just asking for a butt-beating the second your board catches any edge. again speed will help you here, you might feel less stable but you are going too slow to carve and your board is probably not stiff enough to handle it. so learn to link skidded turns or skidded stopping turns (not what you think it is, but what your skidded turns -MUST- turn into when you start facing 50 degree plus icy, narrow, rocky terrain)

5) do some less-steep mogul-covered runs as aggressively as possible. this will get you used to being semi-out-of-control of your brakes since the moguls will largely dictate where you can brake, which will let you realize that you don't always have to be in control of your speed. additionally it will teach you how to snowboard dynamically which is the most important thing you need to start progressing. you will learn how to turn properly as well since you will have to have your weight forward as you begin to crest a mogul, and you will probably instinctively turn/brake after each mogul, meaning you will learn to start your turns with your weight forward and finish them with your weight back. this is good stuff and will definitely make the slightly steeper terrain you face more manageable, as your legs, body, and board will find the less dynamic riding much more reasonable.

the best advice i can give you though is to make an effort to keep your weight forward and ride outside your comfort zone so long as you are not endangering anyone else. you will endanger yourself, and you will fall, but you can't get scared or let the pain dictate your future riding. everytime you face a steep you need to be thinking aggressively. its sort of like forcing yourself to jump into a pool of ice cold water. i go through this every season. i approach a steep and instinctively put my weight back and start to slide on my ass/stomach down, and i have to force myself to get my weight forward.
thanks for the great advice. I'm comfortable at speed as I'm a dh skateboarder, and I only got down the steeps today by linking dynamic skidded turns going slow on the groomed steep last week was like you said almost impossible to try and link turns. I did do something way outta my comfort zone today. on the left face of outer limits was a really steep mogul run and I made it down most if the way, really fresh powder. then hit some ice and then lost my edge and crashed hard. hit my head really hard. have a huge bruise on my eye, but it didn't hurt thanks to my helmet. leaning forward and really bending my knees was amazingly more successful on the same run I couldn't make it down last week.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:55 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I ride at Stevens
Then I must commend you, Stevens is quite steep. Was just there two weeks ago. Double Diamond off Big Chief is pretty steep
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:57 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Then I must commend you, Stevens is quite steep. Was just there two weeks ago. Double Diamond off Big Chief is pretty steep
I was mostly doing the Aquarius face off the backside. but my brother in law loves that DB run. I found a sweet tree run off to the far right off the big chief chair today...
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:13 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I was mostly doing the Aquarius face off the backside. but my brother in law loves that DB run. I found a sweet tree run off to the far right off the big chief chair today...
Ok, Acquarius isn't too bad. But it's a legit black. We had a sweet run down acquarius, then it mellows to a blue and we kept far left and went to the outer limits. Nice fun little run.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:45 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Then I must commend you, Stevens is quite steep. Was just there two weeks ago. Double Diamond off Big Chief is pretty steep

yep, OR, UT and CO, and to a lesser extent CA and NV are notorious for being a notch more difficult than most other resorts, and 2 or more notches more difficult than many small-mountain resorts.

if you can ride the steeps on big-mountain resorts @ OR you should be decently well prepared for almost all steeps...except the moguled up ones on the ice coast still havent really figured how to ace those at even a semi respectable pace
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:27 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Cool!

Glad this is working for you better. It's amazing what proper timing of your flexion extension movements will do for your dynamic skidded turns on technical steeps! Keep this up and start incorporating your fore-aft movements that we talked about as well and really pay attention to the timing. Go to a blue cruiser and ride at speed then dial in you fore-aft here before going back to the steeper terrain. As you do your turns, shift your hips as far toward the nose as is comfortable and initiate the turn. Before the nose of the board points down the run and just before turn apex, shift your board as far forward as you comfortably can and retract the back leg a little. It should almost feel like setting up for an Ollie! Feel how the board just rockets through turn completion with incredible edge hold, smoothness and fluid movement. Get a rhythm going and dial in your timing. In a short while, you are going to really dig the way this feels and will start wanting to use fore-aft all of the time. Then go back to that technical steep armed with this new skill and feel the difference!


As you know, on technical steeps, it is imperative to shift toward the nose for turn initiation but you can't stay there through the turn. As that board reaches the apex of the turn, remember to shift your board out ahead of you so that you are fully aft through the bottom of the turn. This increases edge pressure as well as tightens the turn to get the board pointing slightly back up hill allowing you to change edges before the fall line line and work the top of the turn. The steeper it is the more intense your fore-aft movements must be.

I am thrilled at how much my own riding on technical steeps has improved by really improving my own fore-aft movements through attending training. I am actually carving (not skidding) 45 degree pitches now. Not long ago, I had to use hop turns on technical steeps, now I am carving them!

This is Chute 225 in A Zone Heather Canyon at Mt. Hood Meadows on Friday where I carved about 90% of the time and dynamic skidded the rest. No hop turns!



this is excellent advice and you if you watch go pros of say jeremy jones bombing a supersteep you will see that his board disappears from view as he exits turns and reappears as he enters them. that is how dramatic this movement needs to be to stay under control on faces like this.



notice how each time he initiates a turn you see less of his board and each time he begins to complete a turn you see the most of his board. this should give you a great feel for what is being discussed albeit more intense and with a bit more skid/braking than you should probably have on the runs you are working on
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:04 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Cool!

Glad this is working for you better. It's amazing what proper timing of your flexion extension movements will do for your dynamic skidded turns on technical steeps! Keep this up and start incorporating your fore-aft movements that we talked about as well and really pay attention to the timing. Go to a blue cruiser and ride at speed then dial in you fore-aft here before going back to the steeper terrain. As you do your turns, shift your hips as far toward the nose as is comfortable and initiate the turn. Before the nose of the board points down the run and just before turn apex, shift your board as far forward as you comfortably can and retract the back leg a little. It should almost feel like setting up for an Ollie! Feel how the board just rockets through turn completion with incredible edge hold, smoothness and fluid movement. Get a rhythm going and dial in your timing. In a short while, you are going to really dig the way this feels and will start wanting to use fore-aft all of the time. Then go back to that technical steep armed with this new skill and feel the difference!


As you know, on technical steeps, it is imperative to shift toward the nose for turn initiation but you can't stay there through the turn. As that board reaches the apex of the turn, remember to shift your board out ahead of you so that you are fully aft through the bottom of the turn. This increases edge pressure as well as tightens the turn to get the board pointing slightly back up hill allowing you to change edges before the fall line line and work the top of the turn. The steeper it is the more intense your fore-aft movements must be.

I am thrilled at how much my own riding on technical steeps has improved by really improving my own fore-aft movements through attending training. I am actually carving (not skidding) 45 degree pitches now. Not long ago, I had to use hop turns on technical steeps, now I am carving them!

This is Chute 225 in A Zone Heather Canyon at Mt. Hood Meadows on Friday where I carved about 90% of the time and dynamic skidded the rest. No hop turns!



I'm a little confused on how to actually shift my board forward. is it just straightening your legs faster? and when you say move your hips forward. should I do this by turning them or sliding them forward. while lifting my back foot a little I'm assuming this really helps initiate the next turn? thanks bro really love All the instruction. just want to make sure I'm practicing the right movements.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:44 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I'm a little confused on how to actually shift my board forward. is it just straightening your legs faster? and when you say move your hips forward. should I do this by turning them or sliding them forward. while lifting my back foot a little I'm assuming this really helps initiate the next turn? thanks bro really love All the instruction. just want to make sure I'm practicing the right movements.
Stand on your board on the flats and just slide it forward and back under you. Same kind of motion. Also like the motion you do at the beginning of an ollie.
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