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Scorpioned while flat basing and now I can't anymore

32K views 152 replies 35 participants last post by  jtg 
#1 ·
So after a few times out this year I was flat basing on terrain that wasn't steep with no issue, especially cat tracks. Then once out of nowhere, I scorpioned HARD, not even going that fast. The problem is I don't know what I was doing wrong. So now I am very shy of flatbasing, even slowly on flat terrain.

I have a C2 BTX (aka RC on Neversummer) board.

Is there some trick to doing that while guaranteeing you won't catch an edge? I was way past the point of catching edges in normal riding so it was a little surprising. Yet I see other people flat base bombing steep black sections. And obviously you need to be able to do this at decent speed for most jumps. Usually when I try, I start feeling my back-end get a little squirrely and feel like I narrowly missed another scorpion. What am I missing? Keep all your weight on the front foot?
 
#5 ·
Even if you're not engaging an edge you at least want some pressure on one of them. Yea you can get away with going completely flat based for a little while but every so often you're going to catch an edge when you least expect it. The best way to cure this is to simply not ride flat. Even straight airing off jumps and landing it's a good idea to have a bit of pressure on one of the edges.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I start feeling my back-end get a little squirrely and feel like I narrowly missed another scorpion. What am I missing? Keep all your weight on the front foot?
your backend feels squirrely that's your clue, are a bit in the backseat; shift to the front seat…
Edit: also make sure you are stacked and parallel with close shoulders and hips. You were likely rotated open and in the backseat....the usual set up for a scorpion
 
#7 ·
Even when you think someone is flatbasing, they're usually not..you need to pick an edge..even if its just SLIGHTLY to one side, and you wont catch your edges.
My ex-friend (unrelated) insisted that he rode flatbased..I told him to pay attention when he thought he was doing that and he came back and told me that he was actually putting a very small amount of pressure on his toes without even realizing it.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Exactly...... Don't ever simply flat base unless you want to end up doing an awesome scorp eventually. Always, always stay slightly on edge...I have a C2BTX board as well, and it will save your ass compared to a regular camber board, but I still never ever, ever, ride without engaging an edge. You can ride out a landing flat and most cases be fine for a little while, but if your not on an edge ASAP you might end up on yer ass pretty quick.

I think of it like this... If you're actually flat basing, you're not actually snowboarding, what you're doing is standing on a snowboard. My 2 year old can stand on a snowboard (flat-base down a hill), but he sure as shit can't snowboard.
 
#12 ·
here's the deal, ur cruising along rotated open shoulder (mystery date), in the backseat and on heel edge...doing just fine....but then you switch edge to toe and bam scorped

its because you didn't get in the front seat
or close before you went toeside
or likely both

there is lots of arguement about flatbased verses really on edge...

yes admittedly you want to be on a edge...but there are times that you are flat enough...yet on a very slight edge, that if you don't have you technique down you are going to eat shit...Thus the arguement is senseless because no one talks about the finer points of when, where and how to ride at a very very low angle....i.e, flatbased
 
#15 ·
here's the deal, ur cruising along rotated open shoulder (mystery date)TE'O'd, in the backseat and on heel edge...doing just fine....but then you switch edge to toe and bam scorped

its because you didn't get in the front seat
or close before you went toeside
or likely both

there is lots of arguement about flatbased verses really on edge...

yes admittedly you want to be on a edge...but there are times that you are flat enough...yet on a very slight edge, that if you don't have you technique down you are going to eat shit...Thus the arguement is senseless because no one talks about the finer points of when, where and how to ride at a very very low angle....i.e, flatbased
for reference only...:D
 
#16 · (Edited)
I flatbase a lot. I do it on flat runouts so I maintain speed and I also do it sometimes on big groomers just to see how fast I can go and I quite enjoy the feeling.
Its definately not a technical move but it is a part of snowboarding that if you dont master you will get caught out sooner or later either with a scorpion or not making it through a flat runout because you washed off your speed by using an edge.
I also do it at the end of the day when Im physically spent and cbfd carving, I just want to ride powder stashes
 
#18 · (Edited)
Dude please.
You think your posting but maybe youre not LOL. I would love to take your money but for geographical reasons it will never happen unfortunately

I can flat base at maximum speed without even going near an edge, I fly past everyone on the mountain when Im doing it. Its just something I can do.

My edges are flat on the bottom and 88 on the side too, sharp like a razor blade so I kinda know when I engage one.
 
#49 ·
Dude please.
You think your posting but maybe youre not LOL. I would love to take your money but for geographical reasons it will never happen unfortunately

I can flat base at maximum speed without even going near an edge, I fly past everyone on the mountain when Im doing it. Its just something I can do.

My edges are flat on the bottom and 88 on the side too, sharp like a razor blade so I kinda know when I engage one.
you also wrote this
 
#28 ·
This is how that explanation reads to me :


I ride sloppy and without control and let the board steer me and then then I realize I need to get control I use an edge. You know when I ride flat based? When I'm tired and riding sloppy. It's basically like you're pressing the gas pedal on your car with your hands off the wall and grabbing the wheel right before you crash. It's a good thing no one drives that way.

Whatever works for you. It sounds like you let the board steer you . I'd try and break that habit.. There's absolutely no use for it
 
#31 ·
Dude you need to chill. Did I say I ride like that all day? Um no. I just said I can and you got panty knots. The fact is I can and it does have some uses being able to do it, I cant even remember the last time I caught an edge and I ride fast with edges tuned very aggressively.
 
#36 ·
That's funny, I started typing before I read your "ball rolling down the hill" analogy:thumbsup:

Which is pretty much the same as letting your board go free on its own, it follows the contours of the land. Just like a ball would:thumbsup:

Fuck we're smart:bowdown:, & apparently we can ride a snowboard fairly well too:yahoo:

I don't know how long you've been riding?:dunno:
But I got 25 years & between ETM & I it's gotta be close to 50 years experience or more saying this.

We are right:cheeky4:

Thank you, come again.


TT
 
#33 · (Edited)
Haha I see this is a controversial topic!

The debate about whether or not you are truly ever flat basing is semi-legitimate, but the "no true snowboarder would ever do this" comments we can do without I think.

It's obviously not physics defying to do it. On a perfectly flat slope with a perfectly balanced snowboard and perfect snow, aimed perfectly down the hill, the snowboard will go down without catching an edge. Whether it's practical to do this in the real world, and for how long, I'm not qualified to say.

I'm a little skeptical of the school of thought that people who are "flat basing" are always on some edge, even if only slightly, but maybe that is the case. The main reason I am skeptical is because I've seen them do this on the hill in a straight line and I've seen the tracks it left. Favoring any edge will cause drift. I didn't actually measure, so maybe they drift ever so slightly proportionate to them using an edge ever so slightly, but it sure seems like people have periods of flat base riding as appropriate.

As for bordercross, except when popping off of the lip of a jump, bordercross racers are generally carving. A carved turn will actually accelerate the rider where as a flat based skidding turn slows the rider. To win, these guys want speed and are carving not flat basing.
In turns, yes, definitely they don't want skidding. However, during any flat sections, they want the most direct line possible. If they have a direct, optimal line for a section of the course, I can't imagine that they are going to deviate from that path whatsoever just to use an edge. The only way to go perfectly straight is to be flat. If you're turning at all, you don't want flat, as that will skid, as you say. But when going straight, flat is faster. Think about it, you have a direct line, you are going to turn or veer unnecessarily and waste precious tenths of a second to avoid an edge catch? Gold medal on the line?

I have no experience with that obviously, but thinking logically, observing them, and considering basic physics, you're saying they're never actually flat? If you are sure of that, I'll defer to your expertise, but that would definitely surprise me.
 
#37 ·
ice is completely different. unless your board has extreme traction I'd advise flat basing. and i'm not saying it's impossible to flat base. i'm saying that if you do it frequently for several seconds at a time, it's not very smart and you will catch an edge.

you are probably very slightly pressuring your edge while you flat base anyways just like driving a car on the highway. you always move your wheel very slightly to avoid drifting and correct the wind's effects. in the same way, you always slightly adjust pressure on an edge while flat basing for any considerable period of time.
 
#38 · (Edited)
This argument comes up all of the time and it is retarded. People like Timmytard and ETM are making absolutist statement that flat basing is always faster. People who say that carving is always faster are equally incorrect. The absolute truth here is it depends!

Come ride heavy wet Cascade powder that has baked in the sun all afternoon and is transitioning into corn. I can garantee that carving on edge is faster than flat basing because this slop is sticky as glue. The water content in this snow creates such incredible surface tension that a flat base gets stuck to it like a sweating glass to a glass table even with a structured base.

Now with packed powder, it is really going to depend on the base and wax being used as well as snow conditions. A guy with a sintered base with the right wax for the temperature is going to go faster on a flat base than on an edge. A guy with an extruded base or an unwaxed sintered base will be faster on his edge.

On ice, most everyone will go a little faster on a flat base than on edge.

In powder, no one rides on edge and flat based is the way to ride. Even so, board profile, base material, structure and wax will make a noticeable difference in glide on powder.

The bottom line here too is that with a few exceptions, the differences in speed and glide for the average non pro comp rider will be negligible so ride how you want as it really is not going to be a huge difference except in those special conditions like sticky snow.
I'm not saying it's always faster, my boards right now haven't been waxed in a while.

A few days ago, it was really warm in the sun, the shaded areas were slicker than snot.

I had to ride on edge in any area that the sun was shining on, if not, there was so much drag it felt like I was going to fly over the handlebars when I suddenly went from shade to sun.

But I will say when the conditions are perfect(which they never are) & your board is waxed & tuned perfectly.

The flat baser wins the race.


TT
 
#39 ·
My position wasn't about which was faster?

Mine was more about the "You can't ever", "No one does" & "Your out of control, if you do"

About flat basing, cause all that is, is bull shit.


TT
 
#41 ·
I don't care about this argument anymore, but I am consistently amazed at the low level of intelligence on this forum sometimes.

Your theory may be correct, but your explanations are assanine. It is a fundamental truth that to control the board you need an edge. (Maybe the exception is if you ride by simply muscling the board around..but even then an edge catch is almost inevitable)
You also contradict yourself in the same sentence .. "When conditions are perfect (which they never are)..." - wouldn't that make your point completely...pointless?

Thank you, come again. Goodnight
 
#54 ·
I may not be the worlds best wordsmith but you know what I mean.
Im dead serious about this lol. I can point my board down a run and go straight for as long as the undulations in the terrain allow completely flat on my base. I now realise it is hard for some of you guys to believe but its true

Rodney mullin on a skateboard can do a kickflip, knock the board back the other way mid air, land on it upside down and slide along a box then do a 360 flip out and ride away. Sounds fucking impossible, but he does it.
 
#56 ·
I'm not saying that you can't do that. I can point my board straight down the hill and ride it as long as I want to as well. that being said, I always keep an edge slightly pressured so I can engage at a moments notice. I'm also not saying that it's impossible to do it your way as well. If you want to have no edge pressure, no tendency to engage a specific edge at a moment notice, and you can want to let the mountain take you where it wants, then props to you. But sooner or later, the mountain might decide it doesn't like you anyway and will knock you down. If that's the way you like it, then go ahead and ride that way. I'm not going to because if I'm going to get hurt, I'd rather do it while attempting something not so pointless.
 
#55 ·
I agree with etm and TT. I flatbase alot here. It takes practice and alot of riding flat to get used to it. Its a lot faster on flats and cat tracks. Its faster on a soft surface. On chucky wet snow am edge is alot smoother and faster than flat base. I was riding with a few instructors earlier this season and they were shocked how comfortable and fast I was on a flat base, they couldn't or didnt like doing it. I can ride full speed flat base also.

Making blanket statements either way is retarded but I think eastside is the only one that made aa blanket statement with regards to one form of riding over the other.
 
#58 ·
Additionally when advising others; especially new riders, veterans have a responsibility to give the best and safest advice so these riders progress safely and on a manner that allows them to develop these skills with the ability to handle it.
That's fine as long as it doesn't cross the line to giving false information. As I said, I scorpioned on a flat cat track, which I was flat basing on because you need speed, as you said.

I'm not looking for tips on how to wrecklessly bomb a run on a flat base. From my perspective, I can't even safely get speed to make it up a flat section on a flat base, yet I see others not only doing that regularly, but also bombing. Which suggests to me that it's possible to do reliably without spilling. That's the reason for the question.
 
#59 ·
To progress, you have to pressure an edge. Keep your knees bent in a dynamic stance so you're alert and always ready to correct if you need to. The more you do it the more comfortable you will get and you can then start to relax on it a bit more. If you to, you can move on to completely flat basing runs, but that is unnecessary for practical purposes. You probably won't be able to tell the difference in speed between using no edge and using slight pressure on an edge.
 
#62 ·
yes you can flat base to make it across a flat section or build up speed. but you have to have excellent board control and be a very good rider to do this. which is why you should usually keep pressure on an edge. at LEAST while you are still working on getting across flats without catching an edge.
 
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