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Old 12-20-2008, 07:23 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Correct, you steer right to pitch the bike left with a motorcycle, and on hard ground with mountain bikes or whatever where the rear end is not fish tailing, same thing for a tight turn.
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:46 AM   #42 (permalink)
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The bike analogy is alright for the purpose of showing that a turn should be initiated with the front foot, because a bicycle cannot turn with its front wheel off of the ground.

However, as others have said, bicycles use countersteering to initiate turns. The problem with trying to tell people about this is that it isn't something you often do consciously on a bike, you just do it. When I was getting my motorcycle license, however, I really became aware of countersteering. The basic premise is that in order to turn a motorcycle, you need to lean in the direction of the turn. The problem is you can't just start leaning to one side or you're going to crash; the bike can't stay upright. To initiate a right turn on a motorcycle by leaning, you first push on the right hand grip to steer the front wheel to the left. At this point, you begin to lean to the right, and then finally apply pressure to the left hand grip to keep the front wheel pointed in the desired direction (to the right because you're turning right).

A decent explanatory video, although countersteering can occur at speeds well below 15 mi/hr, contrary to what the gentleman says: YouTube - Swerve Technique on Motorcycle (Countersteering)
This one is sort of a lame explanation, as anyone who has taken a basic physics class knows that "centrifugal force" is a fictional force. Watch the low-speed demonstration though: YouTube - Slow-speed countersteering

Countersteering occurs when you are on a bicycle also, but it's less noticeable because the bicycle has much less inertia than the motorcycle. The bicycle is much easier to lean than the motorcycle, but a slight press on the right handlebar is still the best way to initiate a right turn.
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:17 PM   #43 (permalink)
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The purpose of counter steer is to force lean on a bike / motorcycle. On a motorcycle at highspeed, when you lean, it does not provide enough force to cause the bike to lean enough because of the gyroscopic effect. So thats why you use counter steering to force a lower lean while turning. On snowboards? Your body is able to lean anyway you like to. You can distribute the weight to either edge easier. So there is no point to use counter steering to initiate a turn on a snowboard. Just lean because you CAN! Not so on a motorcycle because of the weight ratio between you and the bike are like 1:3. You only have control of 1/4 of the total weight. That's why bicycles doesn't require counter steering most of the time because you weight alot more than the bike... So how much weight do you control of on a snowboard? ALL OF IT!

Last edited by yusoweird; 03-03-2011 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:10 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:17 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Depending on how steep and how much width you have to work with, you may add a sort of "hop" to your transition when doing a braking turn as described so well by Snowolf.

It is almost like the hop feeling you get when carving but you will actually need to jump a bit.

An example that comes to mind is dropping a chute with a long board, where it is too chopped up for me to straightline it out.

I pick my 3 turn spots to get out of the chute, which are on the banks, and come in fast on an edge, do the braking turn but replace the "brake" with a "hop" right after I am past halfway in the turn.

My momentum has already turned so I intentionally hop to get my board around with the result being a tighter turning radius at speed.



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Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Hi ekrina, that is a very common question!


Okay, where you are at in your progression, do not worry too much about doing real carved turns. You need to stick with your skidded turns and start making them more dynamic. The way these riders are able to go straight down the steeper runs under control, is they are making a lot of very short radius dynamic skidded turns. They use the skidding as braking to maintain their speed.

To make what I call a "braking turn", you will add an extra amount of force on the tail of the board at the apex of your turn to deliberately skid the tail of the board. To get comfortable with this technique, pick a run that you are comfortable going down straight lining. As you are riding, initiate your turns correctly using the front foot to torsionally twist your board, engaging the side cut. Follow through with the rear foot once the turn is established.

For the sake of this example, let`s assume you are now on your heel edge. Now, when you board reaches the apex or high point of your turn (say about a 45 degree angle to the fall line)forcefully, extend you rear leg to push the tail of the board out away from you, causing a good skid and a spray of snow. At full extension, bring the board back under you and initiate a toe side turn. Again, at about the 45 degree point, extend your rear leg forcefully to push the board out behind you in an aggressive skid and a spray of snow.

Keep doing this and try to tighten the turns up so it becomes a real quick rhythm back and forth with shallower turns.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:34 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Hate to bump an old thread but wow some of you have no idea about counter steering. It happens on motorcycles and bikes at speeds above 5-10 mph. So at high speed if I want to intiate a turn I am NOT going to turn the bar in the direction of the turn rather I will push the bar in the direction that I want to go in...

Kneedragger master race checking in
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:49 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofxn View Post
Hate to bump an old thread but wow some of you have no idea about counter steering. It happens on motorcycles and bikes at speeds above 5-10 mph. So at high speed if I want to intiate a turn I am NOT going to turn the bar in the direction of the turn rather I will push the bar in the direction that I want to go in...

Kneedragger master race checking in
Yeah it's called push steering too. Learned it in basic motorcycle class. You fly through a set of cones and a guy stands in front of you with two flags. Whichever flag he raises you have to go that way, you're dinged points if you're not going fast enough.

It's so simple once you get it. He raises his right hand, you push the left bar and the bike tilts under you and initiates the turn to the left (his right). It should become a subconscious technique very quickly in a motorcycle riding career.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:54 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Yeah it's called push steering too. Learned it in basic motorcycle class. You fly through a set of cones and a guy stands in front of you with two flags. Whichever flag he raises you have to go that way, you're dinged points if you're not going fast enough.

It's so simple once you get it. He raises his right hand, you push the left bar and the bike tilts under you and initiates the turn to the left (his right). It should become a subconscious technique very quickly in a motorcycle riding career.
You actually do it without even realizing, when I took my MSF course I screwed up on it cause I was thinking about it. This is a movement that actually comes naturally to us.

What do you ride? I have Ninja Kawasaki 2010
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:58 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofxn View Post
You actually do it without even realizing, when I took my MSF course I screwed up on it cause I was thinking about it. This is a movement that actually comes naturally to us.

What do you ride? I have Ninja Kawasaki 2010
I started on a 2006 Yamaha FZ6, put about 25,000 km on it, then picked up a 2005 R1 (that was in 2008 or so) and had that for a year. Got a pretty good speeding ticket so I sold the bike before my insurance went through the roof.

I'd love to get another bike one day but it'd probably be something like an FZ8 or FZ1. I think they're a good compromise between sport and touring.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:33 AM   #50 (permalink)
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i ride a bobber-style sportster with downturned bars and for me - although i too was taught to push the side of the bars you want to turn to its so much more natural for me to think about pulling the bar on the other side. it does the same thing, dropping the weight of the bike into the inside of the turn... maybe its just my forward position i dunno but when i think push i feel so far forward on the bike into the turn....
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