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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Up until yesterday I'd only been on traditional cambered boards. My current board is a very stiff, very directional cambered ride. It's a cheap extruded base, it sux in pow and it's probably to small for me. After two seasons it's time for that thing to be replaced.... Winter finally came to the eastern sierra and left 4 feet of snow so I figured I would demo some new toys!!! Sunday was a Never Summer Lotus and today the GNU B-Pro. While I loved the Lotus and did not love the B Pro I noticed that neither board had very much pop too it. My cambered deck launches me off nearly anything I want with out much effort or even speed. I couldn't ollie or press it very easily (I suck at both anyway) but I didn't need to ollie to get airborn. I prefer natural terrain but I will hit jumps (no boxes or rails) in the park when conditions suck. You know, like pretty much this whole season!

With the Lotus I did not have that 'launched' feeling at all. Aside from the pop issue I absolutely LOVED that board. I did not want to give it back. I took it to June Mountain and rode the hell out of it. Deep powder bowls off the top, waist deep powder thru tight trees, bombing groomers etc. And stuck every landing except one where I didn't see the kicker in the flat light until way too late and was going way too fast. Oh well, at least I provided a lot of entertainment to the people riding the chair above me. :laugh: I could even do small ollies and presses. Things that were near impossible on the old board. It flat out rocked. And it matched my boots. Total Win!

My only issue was I was kinda missed that feeling of being launched. Im assuming that's what is referred to as pop? I needed a lot more speed to get in the air and it.... was just a more gentle way of being sent into the air. If that makes sense? On the camber board I could pop off moguls and with the lotus I just kinda of went over/thru them.


Anyway, if does make sense, is this something intrinsic to the shape or is it related to stiffness? Can I find a hybrid deck that will have more pop? If not, I'm willing to sacrifice some pop for the ability to float so well in powder. I can live with that :D But if not, then I need to demo some more boards. Any suggestions? :D


Now the B Pro I just did not like at all. But that's for another thread.
 

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Yes... in general, reverse cambered boards have less pop than traditional cambered boards due to their shape. Some of my older cambered boards were like trampolines.

That being said hybrid cambered boards like the ones in Never Summer's lineup also have a different "sweet spot" to get the most pop out of the mini-camber sections when you flex the board (either more towards the tail or closer to the binding depending on the board and your stance).
 

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Hi, a guy with small feet, generally ride women's boards because they are narrow for fast edge to edge and love pop. Demo'd a bpro and thought it was quite nice but less pop; however I'm sticking with my traditional cambered fs all mtn twin (option 155 kendra starr) because of the pop. Had a old gnu bnice that was cambered with mtx and loved that one for the edge hold and pop but snapped the tail. So perhaps try a softer fs cambered twin or maybe a gnu rider's choice with pickle...basically the same as a bpro but a little stiffer/perhaps more pop.
 

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I don't really go for jumps much, but I have noticed that I can load up the tail a little and get some decent pop out of my Bully Doubledog when I want it. Coming off my very stiff cambered board (which was like a high tension spring), I find the hybrid camber to be a little mellower as far as pop, but it makes up for it (for me at least) by being a way more playful board with some pretty good edge hold when I need it.
 

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My cambered deck launches me off nearly anything I want with out much effort or even speed. I couldn't ollie or press it very easily (I suck at both anyway) but I didn't need to ollie to get airborn.

With the Lotus I did not have that 'launched' feeling at all. Aside from the pop issue I absolutely LOVED that board.

My only issue was I was kinda missed that feeling of being launched. Im assuming that's what is referred to as pop?
Not really sure what it is the board is doing that you aren't happy with. From what you said, you didn't ollie your old board to feel "launched". That's what pop is, the power and speed the board rebounds when you ollie it which gives you amplitude. If you don't ollie the board, then the pop, which the camber will affect, isn't even coming into play.

As for the Lotus, not sure having never ridden one, but I owned the Evo from last season and it was one of the better ollieing boards I've ever ridden. Very strong pop out of the cambered sections. I find any type of camber typically pops as well as others.
 

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Its just the way camber snaps vs rocker. Its a completely different load. That said, you might have better luck with like a Ride Farrah or OMG. Petty sure they both have pop rods which across the industry provide some of the most snap you can find.

But hey if youre riding June... The Signal Vita comes with Wavelength like on the mens Omni for 2013. Every girl I've put on it absolutely loves it. Camber between the feet and rocker outside. Power and play.
 

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If you want a stiffer board you'll probably have to move away from women's specific boards. They are softer for an on average lighter rider with less strength. You can't forget the dainty feet either. Moving to the men's board you'll get your stiffness back, but it'll be wider slowing down your edge transitions.

I demo'd the NS SL and Raptor. The raptor was too much of a pure free ride charger for the typical east cost hills I ride. The SL was playful yet let me charge down the mountain with confidence. I also got to ride the K2 slayblade, the Rossi One Magtek, and the Salomon Man's Board. The SL was my favorite ride overall.

However, the Lotus is the most beautiful board in the 2012 NS line up. The top sheet is gorgeous.
 

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If you like stiff and cambered, why not demo some more stiff and cambered boards that are bigger. The size may be why you don't like it in powder, because I'm on a fairly large, very stiff, very cambered board and it handles the powder just fine.

I would miss the pop if I went with something else...
 

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That's what pop is, the power and speed the board rebounds when you ollie it which gives you amplitude.
There's multiple different kinds of pop. A positive camber shape is compressed from its natural position while it's being ridden, which means that it's always pushing up against you, trying to return to its normal shape. That extra pressure gives you some upward spring, which gives you a bit of pop out of carves, and gives you what feels like significant extra height when you pop upwards with both feet evenly, sort of like just jumping off the ground without a board strapped in. Any center rocker shape will have absolutely zero of this kind of pop.

Ollie/Nollie pop isn't quite the same thing, since it comes from a different section of the board, camber still gives you more of this kind of pop, but rockered boards can still be loaded up on the tail to provide some extra spring.
 

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There's multiple different kinds of pop. A positive camber shape is compressed from its natural position while it's being ridden, which means that it's always pushing up against you, trying to return to its normal shape. That extra pressure gives you some upward spring, which gives you a bit of pop out of carves, and gives you what feels like significant extra height when you pop upwards with both feet evenly, sort of like just jumping off the ground without a board strapped in. Any center rocker shape will have absolutely zero of this kind of pop.
False. Anything with center reverse is under the same resistance only in reverse. So the jump straight up pop that is basically useless is from between your feet. Which is also where the snap for turns comes from. Which is why rockers drive between the feet.

Now 3 stage is a whole different story.
 

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So the jump straight up pop that is basically useless is from between your feet.
I have a relatively soft, heavily cambered board (extr txtr), and a very stiff C2BTX board (T.rice HP) that I ride regularly. The pop off of small lips and out of turns on the T.Rice is essentially nothing unless it's loaded from the tail or nose, the return force is negligable on an even pop. On the other hand, the extr txtr has some significant throw during a pop, which helps to initiate spins and force additional height off of small features.

The OP was wondering why their rockered board felt dead on jumps compared to their cambered ride. Whether you perceive that kind of pop to be useless or not, that's why it feels dead.
 

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There's multiple different kinds of pop. A positive camber shape is compressed from its natural position while it's being ridden, which means that it's always pushing up against you, trying to return to its normal shape. That extra pressure gives you some upward spring, which gives you a bit of pop out of carves, and gives you what feels like significant extra height when you pop upwards with both feet evenly, sort of like just jumping off the ground without a board strapped in. Any center rocker shape will have absolutely zero of this kind of pop.

Ollie/Nollie pop isn't quite the same thing, since it comes from a different section of the board, camber still gives you more of this kind of pop, but rockered boards can still be loaded up on the tail to provide some extra spring.
Yes, there are multiple different kinds of pop, but they don't all come into play all the time. Uncambering a traditional camber board coming in and out of carves feels lively but when popping off a jump, the energy from uncambering it is negligible compared to the power generated by the legs.

Furthermore, the OP was riding a hybrid board which has dual camber zones which, if uncambering a board when jumping really created a significant difference in feel, would likewise create a similar sensation, if somewhat muted as compared to traditional camber.

Additionaly, what Nivek said is true. Any camber between the feet (reverse or regular) will add energy when popping with both feet as it unloads. This is just the energy memory forcing the board to return to shape.
 

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Furthermore, the OP was riding a hybrid board which has dual camber zones which, if uncambering a board when jumping really created a significant difference in feel, would likewise create a similar sensation, if somewhat muted as compared to traditional camber.

Additionaly, what Nivek said is true. Any camber between the feet (reverse or regular) will add energy when popping with both feet as it unloads. This is just the energy memory forcing the board to return to shape.
Here's the difference, and I wish I could draw because words aren't the right tool to convey this, but here goes:

Say we have two boards, one center rocker with tip/tail one inch off the ground when laid flat, the other a camber board with the same one inch worth in rise, but in the center. From a standstill on flat terrain, the boards should, in theory, provide the same amount of upwards resistance, but that all changes when the contour of the ground shifts.

In this case, we're talking about a jump. Most, if not all jumps are not a straight plane, they're heavily curved surfaces, it's this case in particular that works against the "pop" on a center rocker board. If you're on a curved surface with the center rocker board, your tip and tail that are raised and normally storing energy are now less engaged because the contour of the ground is flowing with the board, rather than being weighted by the rider on top of the empty space below. So a rocker board loses energy potential on a curved surface because you don't have that inch worth in drop to go to engage the tip/tail.

Conversely, imagine what happens with a cambered board. Because the natural shape of the board is opposite that of the curved ramp, you're putting even more pressure than normal into the camber. Instead of the one inch worth in throw that you have on an even surface, you additionally load the empty space that would have been below the board as stored energy into the camber zone.

Again, whether this is useful or not is up to the rider's preferences. But the physics between a center rocker board and a cambered board as relates to a jump (especially a smaller one) is definitely very different.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Not really sure what it is the board is doing that you aren't happy with. From what you said, you didn't ollie your old board to feel "launched". That's what pop is, the power and speed the board rebounds when you ollie it which gives you amplitude. If you don't ollie the board, then the pop, which the camber will affect, isn't even coming into play.


All I am saying is that if I took the same jump at the same speed I would catch a lot more air on the old board versus the lotus. Which was fine, I just started hitting the jumps with more speed :D

I am willing to give up that pop for float and dampness. I didn't like the B Pro, I wasn't aware it was a true twin when I rented it. It was suggested to me by the shop. Anyway, I thought it was harder to turn on steeper stuff, and asn't totally sold on the magnetraction stuff. I demoed the B Pro at Mammoth, not June.


I was back on the cambered board yesterday and today and I missed how damp and stable the lotus is : (
 

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Irahi: I could see that being the case on very burly kickers such as the topmost jumpline in Parklane at Breck. Those jumps give you a good deal of vert and have deep transitions built into them at the lip. However, go over to Keystone A51 and Main Street wedges have a much flatter and longer transition to the final lip angle. Most park jumps I've seen are closer to this geometry. In this case, you're back to approximately a flat plane again so closely that the differences between reverse and regular become negligible.

In my experiences, smaller jumps tend to have even less transition at the lip (where takeoff actually occurs) and would favor camber over reverse even less.

In either case, I think the contribution to jumping is really more of a feel thing than contributing to enhancing your trajectory. Although, jumping is a great deal mental and so that feeling might be important to some, which is probably why many riders are die hard camber.
 

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Ah, yeah, there's a bit of a disconnect there. On any park jump over say... a 10' table, I don't notice much of a difference between my camber and rocker boards in terms of pop. The forces present on mid-sized and larger jumps are just too much and the curvature is too mellow for there to be much of a difference between the styles, your main force in those jumps just comes from your speed off the lip.

The best examples of radial jumps that really make a difference for camber are naturally occurring. If you take a look at any side hit that people have been riding off of all day, for instance, you'll notice that the whole thing will generally be an even radial curve all the way to the lip. Those are the kinds of jumps you'll see the biggest difference in.
 

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I demo'd the Lotus, Infinity, and Proto and you should definitely try the Infinity or Proto for jumping. They had way more pop because they're meant to be all-mountain freestyle boards. The Proto especially could be great for you, i've heard it's a fantastic jump board and it certainly had a ton of pop when i rode it. I know you said that you have small feet so you ride girl's boards, but as a girl who usually rides guy's boards, the Proto 152 was only a very little slower switching edge to edge for me, and it was definitely still faster than the board im currently on (Burton Clash 155). If you're at or bigger than a girl's 10-10.5/guy's 8-8.5 i'd check it out.
 

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I'd say try the infinity which has a different flex-- or the guys version, the SL. I got the Roxey envi this year. Similar camber and mtx like the b-pro which i haven't ridden. The envi is a smooth ride like the lotus but it feels lighter and has more flex between the bindings, not as stiff but stiffer than the infinity.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
hey, thanks for the suggestion. I rented and Envi today and I love it. Even more then the Lotus, which I didn't think I would.

I am going to buy it for sure!
 
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