[Caloosa]

Hi Folks,

Just got back from LA Plagne , had an incredible week of bluebird days and sunshine, its my fav resort .. been boarding for a few years now ... but the last time i went was 3-4 years ago due to covid madness etc..

I just seem to have lost my mojo and although i am 90% ride as cruiser and very rarely if at all parks, jumps etc.. i considered myself a good rider in a sense that nothing phased me and for my age i could handle myself , and my technique was the right side of being good ( in my humble opinion _ though i'm sure some would disagree !! )


However ... this trip i have just come back from, my boarding was all over the place and like a dogs dinner litrally most days ... and it really got to me .. as i knew i could ride better .. the one thing that really nerved me was the icey hard packed conditioned , the baord always felt like it was constantly going to slide away under me and and this affected my mindset and the trip just got worse .. maybe due to fear of injury etc...i. became very apprehensive, and for the first time in a very long time .. the entire week was not a relaxed fun trip ... even got apprehensive about getting off the lifts!! which i am embarrassed to say as i have been riding for about 9 years - 2-3 times a year previous to covid .. I came back really deflated and am certainly doubting my ability .. which i do know was much better then how i rode the entire week .. and relatively to the previous years .. although i was out nearly every day.. and came back injury free ... i just know my riding felt like it was the first week ever on a snowboard.. and i would flat out on places that i would never have in the past .. and loose speed etc

Has anyone else ever had this ?

I think on this trip my biggest issue became committing the board downhill on the ice ... i just kept putting in really crappy messy turns and using all the piste .. selfishly and heel edging it down often... and that's not just me or the level i was at ..especially on som steep elements of relatively easy blues

any advice or pressing the reset button.. or even how best to cope with ice and hard packed snow... the weather was extremely cold some days .. and though conditions were tough for snowboarders .. not that i am using any excuses for my lack of ability based on how long i have been boarding ... i don't think i actually know how to board on ice and its not very pleasant .. frustrating as i saw some riders ability to pretty much strait line it through the ice and hard pack .. at some speed .. i was constantly watching, but could never reach that level of confidence..

equipment wise i was using my rome agent rocker 155 and flux bindings - could the rockerboard be slight issue with icy conditions ..??

i lay in bed wondering how i could have improved the situation and what was the cause of my shite riding !!.. but it became a bit of groundhog day .. trip was great on the whole due to the amazing weather , but in hindsight maybe i should have taken a couple of lessons ??

any advise or thoughts , and perhaps piss taking ( as i'm sure there will be the odd 1 or 2 welcome..

thanks in advance

 

[Chern]

I feel you! First time in a long time and you want it to be epic. At least the sun was shining!
2-3 years hiatus is definitely a factor, but a sheet of ice and a rocker board don’t play well together.
those boarders straight lining it were definitely not riding reverse camber!
it’s great to be self reflective and want to improve, but it sounds like conditions were shite except for the weather..
another option to lessons in situations like yours is to demo a board or chat up riders on the lifts to find out what boards they're riding in those conditions.
A trip day in and day out of total ice can make anyone second guess their riding. ice isn’t snow.
It’s called snowboarding for a reason.

 

[philw]

Well, the most important factor in getting better... is wanting to do it, which it sounds like you do. So in a sprit of trying to help, rather than trying to be rude...

If you're riding snow with harder and softer patches, skilled riders turn on the soft patches, not the harder patches. it's kind of a trick, but I'll often rip down a piste carving hard, where other skiers and boarders are slipping around on the wrong bits of the piste. It's one of those things which comes from practice, reading the piste, plus the ability to turn precisely where you mean to turn.

I think most people would enjoy hardpack more with a directional camber board. I'm not familiar with that "rocker" board specifically. Presumably you rode it before without issue though, so what's changed?

Some refresher lessons may well be a good idea: perhaps you've just forgotten one or two key things. Another idea is to get a buddy to video you - that may give you a better feel for what you need to work on.

I think a lot of snowboarders think they can ride because they can "get down black runs". In truth they're sideslipping, not turning the board: they've developed bad habits, not learned to ride. That "expert beginner" problem shows up more on hard snow, or in powder, or on anything which isn't easy.

UK snowdomes may be a good place to practice, what with their snow being fairly hard. You can demo or rent different boards there too, but I'd start with your existing board, if you reckon you used to be ok with it.

 

[money4me247]

I run into this type of issue a lot actually where a trail that I know well is very icy or really hard-packed, and feel uncomfy the first few runs until I get warmed up. There's two ways that I've found really helps me regain confidence. Ride a steeper ('harder') trail that has better conditions and really focus on basic form / fundamentals so you are getting on your edges and carving well. Or if feeling really out of it, do that same thing on a mellower run. Once I feel like my form is really spot on, I go back and tackle the tricker run with worse conditions, and it really helps a ton. Especially if you 're-mastered' your technique on a steeper faster run, you really have a lot more confidence at speed.

For icier runs, stay to the sides. The snow is nicest on the sides. If pure sheets of ice, just glide over it (either with no edging or a very subtle edge) because you will slide out on pure ice. Most of the time, what feels 'icy' is just really hard packed snow with some icing (but not pure sheets of ice). For that type of icy hard pack, you can actually get a really solid edge into it and it will feel very stable, but you really need good form or else your edge will just slide over it intsead of digging in because there is no soft snow to help. If you are side slipping on icy hard pack, you will feel really out of control as there isn't enough fresh snow to give friction so you really feel the icy hard pack sliding under you as you side-slip.

One common issue I run into is when carving more, I tend to go at higher speeds, so will sometimes try to scrub some speed with a side slip, but that will really cause a feeling of loss of control on icy hard pack. Really need to try to stay on the edge without any speed checks and be comfy riding with speed - traverse longer and point a bit uphill to slow down, but it is definitely a faster way of riding. That's why I recommend doing practice runs on steeper slopes with more fresh snow as you acclimate to riding with speed on your edges without any slide slips.

The last advice I have is wear protection! Wearing protection gives a huge boost to confidence and peace of mind, and your falls are always cushioned and not too bad. I wear Burton impact shorts, Black Diamond tele-kneesis knee pads, and Level gloves with wrist protection, and a helmet of course. Falling on ice or icy hard-pack hits a bit harder than soft snow, but conditions are usually icy where I mostly ride at Hunter, so protective gear has been a life-saver!

edit: for technique, I really focus on the basics:

• Keeping my weight stacked over the board with belly button over my effective edge by bending ankles and knees without any bending at the waist (really important to keep you balanced and not slip out ),
• Staying on edge with back foot following the exact path of the front foot (no ruddering out the back foot)
• Initiating the turn at the right time midway through the traverse with torsional twist pedaling the front foot first following by the back foot.
• Shifting my weight from front to back during the turn to stay on edge
• Making sure there is no counter-rotation in my body while riding

Once you have confidence riding in icy conditions, you will naturally relax more and ride even better!

 

[masotime]

the one thing that really nerved me was the icey hard packed conditioned , the baord always felt like it was constantly going to slide away under me and and this affected my mindset and the trip just got worse .. maybe due to fear of injury etc..<snip>

I think on this trip my biggest issue became committing the board downhill on the ice ... i just kept putting in really crappy messy turns and using all the piste .. selfishly and heel edging it down often... and that's not just me or the level i was at ..especially on som steep elements of relatively easy blues

My take on ice is that it increases the difficulty of all rides by one level.

Greens > Blues
Blues > Blacks (or reds, if you’re in Europe)

Unfortunately snowboards aren’t great on ice - they’re not “iceboards”. Skiers do better because they have 2 edges against the ice / hardpack.

Having said that, and also in line with ”committing the board downhill on the ice”… I’ve personally found the best thing to do on icy steeps is to traverse - this works because by driving the board across the fall line, you give gravity less chances to cause you to lose your edge. Also do not look down! This will instinctively cause you to apply pressure down the fall line, greatly increasing the risk of losing an edge.

tldr; utilize the board’s momentum to reduce the effects of gravity. Sadly you can’t traverse forever, so you need to be able to pivot and traverse to the other side when you reach the other side of the run.

Other things - keep a low edge angle - this means more surface area of your board in contact with the ground and less chances to lose your edge.

One unconventional tactic - I‘ve found that moguls are a safer bet in icier conditions - it’s harder to ride icy moguls, but it also reduces the chances of getting into an uncontrollable slide because of the bumps. This doesn’t work so well in very steep mogul fields, but you shouldn’t encounter those If you don’t venture beyond blues / reds.

If you encounter true ice… ironically the only thing to do is to actually straight line it - ref:

. This isn’t realistic for most people - so maybe the most prudent advice is to avoid the slopes on icy days. Wait for the sun to come out and melt it a little, or stick to greens. It’s rarely worth the risk and injury - ice / hardpack is not fun.

 

[Caloosa]

thank you money, phil, & chern.. so far.. all very useful information ..

i should have added .. they i tried most of the known , remedies like sticking the side of the piste for any bits of powder or even just slightly of the piste ... and phil i totally agree aboy the point you made about some thinking if they can do blacks regardless of style and just getting down it any old how, they consider themselves good "quote/unquote".. i guess i don;t feel thats how i ride..
ive done a couple of progression camps and i off piste camp ... so i have a good idea of what should be a good way of baording ... but i ceratainly did not put that into practice!! ... but all valid points ... it is interesting you all mentioned , riding a full camber board may have helped the situation - thhs is where my knowledge is weak ... i am keen to explore this and perhaps investing in camber board for all mountain riding ...

 

[Laguna Freak]

Sage counsel offered above. They pretty well covered all of the bases. What a great forum this is.

I can only re-emphasize the rocker board poor edge hold on ice likely caused a rapid deterioration in your confidence which subconsciously had a negative impact on your riding posture, technique, and ability to “see the trail” ahead for best turning spots. Bare in mind too that not all camber boards are great ice riders either and the ones that are can be a bit edge catchy. You might demo a camber board if you encounter such conditions again.

I’ll share that last spring at Big Sky after riding 2 great days of a 10” snowfall the day of our arrival, I took a day off that ended up getting warm and slushy. The next day was cold and overcast. The entire mountain was really icy, a lot of work, and not much fun. Not very crowded either, for good reason. That experience was a bit of an eye opener for me as a 59 yro 5th season snowboarder. Now I really consider the weather forecast when taking a day off. This year, my son and I deliberately avoided the spring season in our planning and its been phenomenal in UT and WY.

I recommend you set your mind on pursuing truth: Know that you possess the requisite riding skills. Critically assess the conditions you experienced, including suitability of your board to ice. You planned your trip for mid-winter too but got conditions which are widely known to be anomalous for LaPlagne. Nothing to do but get back on that horse at the next best opportunity. Best wishes!

 

[Caloosa]

My take on ice is that it increases the difficulty of all rides by one level.

Greens > Blues
Blues > Blacks (or reds, if you’re in Europe)

Unfortunately snowboards aren’t great on ice - they’re not “iceboards”. Skiers do better because they have 2 edges against the ice / hardpack.

Having said that, and also in line with ”committing the board downhill on the ice”… I’ve personally found the best thing to do on icy steeps is to traverse - this works because by driving the board across the fall line, you give gravity less chances to cause you to lose your edge. Also do not look down! This will instinctively cause you to apply pressure down the fall line, greatly increasing the risk of losing an edge.

tldr; utilize the board’s momentum to reduce the effects of gravity. Sadly you can’t traverse forever, so you need to be able to pivot and traverse to the other side when you reach the other side of the run.

Other things - keep a low edge angle - this means more surface area of your board in contact with the ground and less chances to lose your edge.

One unconventional tactic - I‘ve found that moguls are a safer bet in icier conditions - it’s harder to ride icy moguls, but it also reduces the chances of getting into an uncontrollable slide because of the bumps. This doesn’t work so well in very steep mogul fields, but you shouldn’t encounter those If you don’t venture beyond blues / reds.

If you encounter true ice… ironically the only thing to do is to actually straight line it - ref:

. This isn’t realistic for most people - so maybe the most prudent advice is to avoid the slopes on icy days. Wait for the sun to come out and melt it a little, or stick to greens. It’s rarely worth the risk and injury - ice / hardpack is not fun.

HOLY SHISH KEBAB!! masotime ... thats insane and i certainly do not want to sign up for that or emulate it.. crazy shit .. that is a vertical decent into hell on ice !!

 

[Board Doctor]

As others have said, ice is just the worst and it’s tough not to let it kill your mojo. Definitely scrutinize you technique, but…

People have different views on edge tech, but I do really like additional contact under foot (rather than mostly out at the ends). It’s gripping where your weight is. I have a Rossignol Krypto that’s astounding with the serrated edge (maybe 7 bumps), and also I have a Niche Maelstrom with only bumps at the inserts and it’s still good. I don’t ride other boards on ice.

If you‘re riding a full rocker board, yeah, I’d get off that. You could even grab a used board for suboptimal conditions… but make sure the edges are sharp.

 

[foe]

Sounds like less than ideal conditions and (maybe) your form could be a little rusty creating a bit of a vicious circle?

Has anyone else ever had this ?

Yes. A year since my previous trip. Conditions were OK, I was making turns but everything felt a bit clunky. Couldn’t put my finger on what was wrong. Got a lesson the next day - straight away the instructor spotted the issue. Nothing major - just a bad habit creeping in. A couple of exercises later and it all just clicked again. The rest of the lesson was great and I was able to focus on more advanced stuff.

 

[Duas]

Icy conditions = Go to shop sharpen edges and use stiff board

 

[Donutz]

Icy hard-pack conditions will totally suck the fun out of a session. Don't write yourself off until you've ridden again under good conditions. You'll find it's like magic -- the mojo is back.

 

[Rip154]

If there’s ice just seek out the flats and traverses, there’s more fun to be had trying to carve and skip that, than sliding down the steeps avoiding others.

 

[Caloosa]

Sage counsel offered above. They pretty well covered all of the bases. What a great forum this is.

I can only re-emphasize the rocker board poor edge hold on ice likely caused a rapid deterioration in your confidence which subconsciously had a negative impact on your riding posture, technique, and ability to “see the trail” ahead for best turning spots. Bare in mind too that not all camber boards are great ice riders either and the ones that are can be a bit edge catchy. You might demo a camber board if you encounter such conditions again.

I’ll share that last spring at Big Sky after riding 2 great days of a 10” snowfall the day of our arrival, I took a day off that ended up getting warm and slushy. The next day was cold and overcast. The entire mountain was really icy, a lot of work, and not much fun. Not very crowded either, for good reason. That experience was a bit of an eye opener for me as a 59 yro 5th season snowboarder. Now I really consider the weather forecast when taking a day off. This year, my son and I deliberately avoided the spring season in our planning and its been phenomenal in UT and WY.

I recommend you set your mind on pursuing truth: Know that you possess the requisite riding skills. Critically assess the conditions you experienced, including suitability of your board to ice. You planned your trip for mid-winter too but got conditions which are widely known to be anomalous for LaPlagne. Nothing to do but get back on that horse at the next best opportunity. Best wishes!

thank yo Lugna.. foiod for thought .. appreciate you replying

 

[Caloosa]

Sounds like less than ideal conditions and (maybe) your form could be a little rusty creating a bit of a vicious circle?



Yes. A year since my previous trip. Conditions were OK, I was making turns but everything felt a bit clunky. Couldn’t put my finger on what was wrong. Got a lesson the next day - straight away the instructor spotted the issue. Nothing major - just a bad habit creeping in. A couple of exercises later and it all just clicked again. The rest of the lesson was great and I was able to focus on more advanced stuff.

hi foe... yes in hind sight i should have perhaps taken a couple of lessons once it had continued to go belly up !

 

[Caloosa]

As others have said, ice is just the worst and it’s tough not to let it kill your mojo. Definitely scrutinize you technique, but…

People have different views on edge tech, but I do really like additional contact under foot (rather than mostly out at the ends). It’s gripping where your weight is. I have a Rossignol Krypto that’s astounding with the serrated edge (maybe 7 bumps), and also I have a Niche Maelstrom with only bumps at the inserts and it’s still good. I don’t ride other boards on ice.

If you‘re riding a full rocker board, yeah, I’d get off that. You could even grab a used board for suboptimal conditions… but make sure the edges are sharp.

cheers.. yes ive started doing some home work as to where to start with camber boards

 

[Caloosa]

thanks to all who have replied and i appreciate you all finding the time to do so... the one thing i have have always ridden is a rocker type board , maybe its time for me to brave the attempt to switch to a camber ... in fairness .. over the years , i have been very lucky with snow conditions and most of my trips, the snow has been dumping down or lots of powder .. i tend to pack and go short notice when those conditions are around and choose the locations accordingly .. sooo the rocker board has been great in those powder conditions and suits me ... however these conditions i exeperinced recently were the other end of the spectrum and the general consensus seems to be that the rocker style will against me on hard pack snow and ice .... maybe i need to mix it up with boards!!... anyhow i shall start doing some dog work on what type of camber board i should begin with as an all mountain rider.. if any of you have any heads up , or can recommend then i would welcome it ... as i want to put this experience behind me and not let it affect my next session , if the conditions remain are the same ... i'm based in europe so some of the north American smaller dealers are difficult to get hold of .. so please bear this in mind .. cheers again to all

 

[money4me247]

I bought a camber board as my first board after rentals and it is not as bad / scary of a transition as it may sound going for rocker / flat boards to camber if you already know how the snowboard. Slight adjustment with your edges but will build better habits long-term and should be fine after a few runs to get used to it.

if you are located somewhere with lots of powder, maybe consider a directional board with some setback (if u don't do much switch) or a bit of rocker in the tips or volume-shifted board (esp if you have larger feet >10) to help with float.

For icy conditions, camber boards work well but other profiles with edge tech like magnetraction can hold well too.

if you can demo some boards in real life, it really helps it seeing what profiles work well for your riding style.

Good luck with your search!

 

[wrathfuldeity]

Since ur on the other side of the pond. Look at amplid and the s-profile cambers. Basically a traditional twin camber with a bigger early rise nose. Ime the s-profile cambers works in reasonable pow, over chop and while blasting ice to soft groomers.

The other thing, getting back in the saddle. One tends to forget, that it's difficult to be on point all day. It's attentional focus and energy management. It takes a few runs to get warmed up. Then you can blast with focus, aggressively attacking runs and with good energy and form. But then comes the phase of sloppy shit where things begin to fall apart... focus, energy, attention and form. At this stage, if there is a bit of reserve, it's good just to dial it back on some mellower runs and do some drills and then call it a day.

So part of your frustration might be due to not having been in the saddle much for the past few years. So expectations vs reality. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Once you start going more frequently, it will quickly come back. Last week was my first day of the season and the season before that I only got 2 days that year. So I was a bit apprehensive last week but managed to do reasonably well warming up and blasting groomers non-stop from 9-1. Then at 1-2pm my shit became sloppy. Ended up meeting a random enthusiastic noob; it was his first day on a board but had skated and surfed for many years. Anyway, helped him dial in some form and he was smashing it... got him off the bunny hill and we did a black run and we were both stoked he did very well.

Ice takes focus and attention and an aggressive mindset. And a cambered board.

 

[Board Doctor]

I feel like I need about 10-15 days (okay, maybe half days) in the season to get back to where I was the previous season. I should really do more in the off season.

Here’s another European board to consider. I haven’t ridden it, but the specs look good (though it’s probably more intermediate to advanced):

Descender Snowboard

The Descender is an all mountain directional freeride snowboard that offers all the power and control you ever wished for.

www.strandasnowboards.com