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Discussion Starter #1
I thought about my recent trip and my growing knee pain as I returned to the gym.

Towards the end of the trip, I was getting a lot of knee tendonitis pain. Granted, I was snowboarding for 6 weeks with only three days of rest (back to back), and I've never ridden that much before. Each day I was riding 4-5 hours with more hours on powder days.

Something I noticed was that I fatigued much much faster due to knee pain rather than muscles actually getting tired. This was especially true when I rode my Arbor Iguchi (my stiffest board). Now it's entirely possible it was conditions that fatigued me since I only broke out my NS Swift on powder days which are definitely easier on the knees. However, on the last few days, I took out my Lago Double barrel since my Arbor had top sheet damage, and I found that my knees weren't getting as fatigued.

Is this a normal problem with board stiffness or is it just my lack of fitness?

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I could be both...had some lead knee pain earlier this season due to jamming it...but found if I just pointed the stiff board more straight down the hill = less pain. To which I attributed it to less fighting gravity, less stress and thus less knee pain. There for a few weeks pretty much all I did was high speed groomers (not that there was much else to do) and stayed away from chop and turning as little as possible. However there ended up being some benefit...last Saturday there have been 2 runs that I have always speed checked for the past 16 years...last Saturday...pretty much straight lined the bastards. :surprise: :grin:
 

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Stiff board fast = hooray!
Stiff board in crowded resort over bumps = ouch!

My favorite board to ride currently is a Rome Mod which is a stiff, aggressive board. When I can open it up, there's no problem at all. When I have to slow it down to avoid killing other people and ride through shit conditions instead of over them, it's painful and quite a workout.

It's very apparent to me because my knee is not completely healed from the ACL surgery last spring.

Also, I have an exceptionally damp Never Summer 25 that's easy on the knees considering how stiff it is.
 

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Bindings matter, too, as there are some notable differences in the padding of the footbeds.

What bindings do you have on those boards?
 

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Oh, and please don't ride with knee pain especially multiple days in a row for weeks like that. You will wear out your muscles and put a ton of stress on your tendons, ligaments and everything that holds your knee together will have to work extra hard to compensate, and you'll be prone to sprains, tears, and other hard to fix injuries.

Ask me how I know.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The pain didn't really start to set in until maybe the 4th week so I am leaning towards overuse. I did start calling some days when I felt the pain was too much, and I was very likely to hurt myself.

I was using +15/-15 Union Falcor bindings for the first 4.5 weeks. I then switched over to Now Drives. Otherwise, the stance is completely the same (reference).

The Lago Double Barrel had Rome Katanas, and the NS Swift had Now Brigades. I do suspect bumpy terrain also played a part, but Big Sky wasn't too bumpy, and the Arbor was still tough for me to ride. Also, if I did a single mogul run, I would pretty much be dead.

I also think part of the problem was riding increasingly difficult terrain AKA steep (Solitude, Snowbird, Jackson), and I'm still not as comfortable going down steeper terrain without speed checking my way down. That said, I did some steep stuff at Big Sky w/ the Lago and didn't feel as bad which is why I am suspect board setup was a factor.
 

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I've had this, healed up, narrowed my stance to a point where there's no pain either way. Problem solved. Suspect the stance was making me land too much with a straight leg.
 

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What's your stance width, height, and inseam length?

Could be worth changing your stance angles too. Maybe try 18 and 12 or 21 and 9 and see if that has any effect. There's very few people on the mountain that should be riding a symmetrical duck stance, and 21 9 won't impact learning switch as much as you might think.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
What's your stance width, height, and inseam length?

Could be worth changing your stance angles too. Maybe try 18 and 12 or 21 and 9 and see if that has any effect. There's very few people on the mountain that should be riding a symmetrical duck stance, and 21 9 won't impact learning switch as much as you might think.
I don't have any of my boards set up right now so I'm measuring off of the imprint left by the bindings :p

Stance width - approx 21.5-22" - I used to have a narrower stance, but I've lately been increasing it.
Height - 5'10"
Inseam length - approx 32"

I might try +18/-12 or +18/-18. Duck stance does feel comfortable to me though since I squat regularly, but I wonder if maybe the angles just aren't correct. I squat in a narrower stance and with less of a foot angle I think. I know when I first started off the season I was getting some lateral knee pain, but maybe that was just getting used to riding again.
 

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I don't have any of my boards set up right now so I'm measuring off of the imprint left by the bindings :p

Stance width - approx 21.5-22" - I used to have a narrower stance, but I've lately been increasing it.
Height - 5'10"
Inseam length - approx 32"

I might try +18/-12 or +18/-18. Duck stance does feel comfortable to me though since I squat regularly, but I wonder if maybe the angles just aren't correct. I squat in a narrower stance and with less of a foot angle I think. I know when I first started off the season I was getting some lateral knee pain, but maybe that was just getting used to riding again.
I wouldn't go +18/-18 unless you naturally stand with quite a splay. At 5'10" and 32" inseam I'd probably try even +18/-9, a slightly smaller foot splay. Does 1 knee tend to hurt more than the other?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I wouldn't go +18/-18 unless you naturally stand with quite a splay. At 5'10" and 32" inseam I'd probably try even +18/-9, a slightly smaller foot splay. Does 1 knee tend to hurt more than the other?
When I had lateral knee pain, it was my front foot (left), but that disappeared pretty quickly. Right now, I'd say the pain is more in the right knee but only marginally. Both were pretty bad when I was on the mountain.
 

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I wouldn't go +18/-18 unless you naturally stand with quite a splay. At 5'10" and 32" inseam I'd probably try even +18/-9, a slightly smaller foot splay. Does 1 knee tend to hurt more than the other?
When I had lateral knee pain, it was my front foot (left), but that disappeared pretty quickly. Right now, I'd say the pain is more in the right knee but only marginally. Both were pretty bad when I was on the mountain.
Advice from my physical therapist was to not use extreme angles as you're more at risk of straining your knees that way. (+-15 = OK, +-18 = mehhh)
 

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I wouldn't go +18/-18 unless you naturally stand with quite a splay. At 5'10" and 32" inseam I'd probably try even +18/-9, a slightly smaller foot splay. Does 1 knee tend to hurt more than the other?
When I had lateral knee pain, it was my front foot (left), but that disappeared pretty quickly. Right now, I'd say the pain is more in the right knee but only marginally. Both were pretty bad when I was on the mountain.
Advice from my physical therapist was to not use extreme angles as you're more at risk of straining your knees that way. (+-15 = OK, +-18 = mehhh)
When I went from 12/-12 to 15/-15 I had knee pain. When I went back to 12 it went away. That was my phase of playing with angles to try and find what worked for me. Now I just leave it like that on a twin and lessen the angle on the back foot to -6 when I’m on a directional board.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
When I went from 12/-12 to 15/-15 I had knee pain. When I went back to 12 it went away. That was my phase of playing with angles to try and find what worked for me. Now I just leave it like that on a twin and lessen the angle on the back foot to -6 when I’m on a directional board.
Interesting, what are your measurements? I was told to use larger angles with widers stances (sumo deadlift vs conventional deadlift)
 

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Interesting, what are your measurements? I was told to use larger angles with widers stances (sumo deadlift vs conventional deadlift)
My problem stems from my kneecaps putting pressure on the outside of my knees which with the larger angles the pressure is greater. I am still working with a physical therapist on building up my VMO which should help to stabilise the knee reducing pressure on the outside. Once that is resolved I can see how it goes and play around with different stances again. Right now I am staying with 12/-12 because I have the least amount of swelling and pain at the end of the day.

My stance is 54cm, I am 180cm tall.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
My problem stems from my kneecaps putting pressure on the outside of my knees which with the larger angles the pressure is greater. I am still working with a physical therapist on building up my VMO which should help to stabilise the knee reducing pressure on the outside. Once that is resolved I can see how it goes and play around with different stances again. Right now I am staying with 12/-12 because I have the least amount of swelling and pain at the end of the day.

My stance is 54cm, I am 180cm tall.
Interesting, so pretty much same measures as me. I will have to give smaller angles a try then.
 

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Interesting, what are your measurements? I was told to use larger angles with widers stances (sumo deadlift vs conventional deadlift)
A sumo deadlift stance for most is still much wider than their snowboarding stance. Also changing from a symmetrical duck to a slightly more directional duck stance could help take some of that pressure off your knees. If you're riding in your regular stance the majority of the time, and pretty much always when you're actually riding hard, it makes sense to have your angles in such a way that favours your regular stance.
 

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The pain didn't really start to set in until maybe the 4th week so I am leaning towards overuse.
I think you pretty much nailed it there. It's tough to attribute it to a setup problem if it didn't occur until 4 weeks in. Changing your setup now might help to improve the symptoms now that they're established, but I think it'd be a red herring. It really sounds like overuse.
 
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