[ToolFan]

Hi all,

I live in NY and have a trip planned for next month out to Colorado, to snowboard Breckenridge and Keystone. I've never been to either, and have only once been on a mountain out west, skiing about 20 years ago. So I have no idea what to expect, and I'm trying to figure out if the bowls (which look really cool) are above my skill level.

Last winter was my 2nd full season on the board, and things finally clicked and I got a lot more comfortable on all beginner trails and many intermediate trails around NY (at Mount Snow, Hunter, Catamount, Butternet, etc). I think I'm a fairly solid intermediate boarder - I still fall a few times a day, but no bad falls, and I usually know what I did wrong. I still hate and avoid ice and/or snow that's been groomed so solid that it might as well be ice, and I'm likely to fall if I wind up on one of those types of trails. Or to put it another way, I'm fine on powder but I can get shaky elsewhere.

I've been looking at the trail maps for Breckenridge and Keystone, as well as watching some youtube videos. I see that the bowls (above the tree line) are all pretty much diamond or double-diamond. But looking on the youtube videos, the trails don't seem all that steep to me. They don't seem nearly as steep as the diamonds I see out here. I know a video can be misleading though, and steepness can be very hard to judge on a screen.

So, can anyone who has experience out there give me some input in advance? I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, I have no interest in tumbling down a mountain. Is there something else that makes these trails difficult besides just how steep they are?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Sudden_Death]

There are the unmarked hazards like cliffs/drops and since these aren't groomed there can be heavy moguls. When you say intermediate are you full on carving on the blues or are you still skidding your turns? If you have the edge control to carve those runs you might be alright but if you're still skidding your turns you might want to stick to marked groomers.

 

[MrDavey2Shoes]

How’s your fitness? A tracked out bowl can be exhausting. That’s when things get dangerous.

 

[mjayvee]

Hi all,

I live in NY and have a trip planned for next month out to Colorado, to snowboard Breckenridge and Keystone. I've never been to either, and have only once been on a mountain out west, skiing about 20 years ago. So I have no idea what to expect, and I'm trying to figure out if the bowls (which look really cool) are above my skill level.

Last winter was my 2nd full season on the board, and things finally clicked and I got a lot more comfortable on all beginner trails and many intermediate trails around NY (at Mount Snow, Hunter, Catamount, Butternet, etc). I think I'm a fairly solid intermediate boarder - I still fall a few times a day, but no bad falls, and I usually know what I did wrong. I still hate and avoid ice and/or snow that's been groomed so solid that it might as well be ice, and I'm likely to fall if I wind up on one of those types of trails. Or to put it another way, I'm fine on powder but I can get shaky elsewhere.

I've been looking at the trail maps for Breckenridge and Keystone, as well as watching some youtube videos. I see that the bowls (above the tree line) are all pretty much diamond or double-diamond. But looking on the youtube videos, the trails don't seem all that steep to me. They don't seem nearly as steep as the diamonds I see out here. I know a video can be misleading though, and steepness can be very hard to judge on a screen.

So, can anyone who has experience out there give me some input in advance? I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, I have no interest in tumbling down a mountain. Is there something else that makes these trails difficult besides just how steep they are?

Thanks in advance!

Let me get this right: you are an intermediate rider, visiting a mountain that you do not ride regularly, and want to take on advanced terrain?

And you are seeking out online advice about this?

Did you Google, Bing, and/or Duck Duck Go search this topic also?

 

[ToolFan]

@Sudden_Death for the most part I'm carving through the intermediate stuff. Occasionally on steeper stuff on mount snow I do skid a little. I didn't know about cliffs etc, thanks for that. The YouTube vids I watched all looked pretty tame, just giant bowls of snow.

@MrDavey2Shoes I'm fairly fit but I'm also not used to that kind of altitude so I imagine that can play a role. What does tracked out mean?

@mjayvee congrats on the most worthless comment of the thread so far lol

 

[Elevation212]

@Sudden_Death for the most part I'm carving through the intermediate stuff. Occasionally on steeper stuff on mount snow I do skid a little. I didn't know about cliffs etc, thanks for that. The YouTube vids I watched all looked pretty tame, just giant bowls of snow.

@MrDavey2Shoes I'm fairly fit but I'm also not used to that kind of altitude so I imagine that can play a role. What does tracked out mean?

@mjayvee congrats on the most worthless comment of the thread so far lol

Couple thoughts

1. Watch the snow, a month from now many bowls will still be closed as they typically don’t fill in until January/February

2. If the snows good I’d check my ability to make technical maneuvers on steeps. Being a ice coast rider I find Colorado boarding to be easier to check my speed and maneuver as the snows softer and deeper typically. Go hit a diamond groomer and try stopping/making tight turns on demand (like you are trying to avoid a rock) if you can do that I’d feel pretty comfortable running a bowl

3. Take your first bowl slow, people have mentioned that ungroomes bowls have unmarked hazards. This should be your biggest concern, I haven’t seen many bowls that don’t call out mandatory air so I wouldn’t worry too much about cliffs but rocky patches may or may not be marked. Take it easy the first few times down until you’ve been able to scout it out.

4. Talk to the concierge or mtn safety, typically I find them to have decent advice on where the best cover is and what good starter terrain is

4. Consider a lesson, lessons don’t have to be riding the bunny slope. Call the mountain school and explain what you want to learn, they’ll have instructors and options, I’ve been boarding for 25 years and love to take a lesson each season to get a form tune up and try something new ranging from technical free ride to freestyle, it’s an awesome way to learn while having a guide to take you through optimal terrain for your skill level

Have fun I’ve ridden breck and keystone bowls and found the majority of single diamond to be fun and manageable even in my early days. The most disorienting aspect is in certain light not being able to see terrain features like drops etc, keep your knees bent and stay loose

 

[Scalpelman]

I’m an east coast rider. Advanced intermediate. I went out to CO two years ago and had a blast. The snow is so different there. You’ll have so much fun on piste that if you miss out on the bowls it won’t matter. If there is a dump or the gates drop give it a shot while the pow is fresh. Riding over others tracks without many fresh lines (tracked out) can be a chore. But if it’s fresh it’s a pleasure. Lean way back my friend, lean back. Falling in the deep doesn’t hurt but getting back up is a bitch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DaveMcI]

There really is only one way to find out.

 

[ToolFan]

Thanks @Elevation212, very useful pointers. Have you been out east? Can you compare the steepness of a bowl vs intermediate trails in the east?

I still haven't taken a lesson and have been meaning to. This will be a good opportunity for that. Groomed diamonds are definitely still above my skill level, I know I'd just skid down the whole thing. Maybe in a year or two.

@Scalpelman thanks, that's what I've heard from friends, that the snow out there is just powder, and falling doesn't hurt at all because it's so soft. We'll be there over new year's, hopefully there'll be good snow before we arrive and while we're there

 

[Elevation212]

Thanks @Elevation212, very useful pointers. Have you been out east? Can you compare the steepness of a bowl vs intermediate trails in the east?

I still haven't taken a lesson and have been meaning to. This will be a good opportunity for that. Groomed diamonds are definitely still above my skill level, I know I'd just skid down the whole thing. Maybe in a year or two.

@Scalpelman thanks, that's what I've heard from friends, that the snow out there is just powder, and falling doesn't hurt at all because it's so soft. We'll be there over new year's, hopefully there'll be good snow before we arrive and while we're there

Majority of my skiing has been out east, single diamond bowls in Colorado I find to be a bit less steep then single diamonds in the east but a bit more technical.

In regards to your comment on skidding turns I’ll get on my soap box for a moment, people conflate carving and dynamic skids . The majority of true carving is done on mellow angled slopes or wide open steeps without a lot of people. This is due to true carves not bleeding much speed unless you are going to have the space to cut parallel to the fall line sometimes even going back up mountain about. Dynamic skids are going to be 80% of your turns on steeps and crowded slopes.

Go watch the best carvers they call out that there carving is done on greens and mellow blues with low crowds and well groomed snow, it’s super fun but don’t get too fixated on it, instead worry about how you can move your board in useful ways while managing the terrain and crowds while stackin your weight on edge, guiding your turns with your front foot and not counter rotating

Have fun out there! Breck and keystone are designed to be accessible and they do a great job setting up their guests for success

 

[ToolFan]

Thank you again, yea I'm really looking forward to this trip (hence starting this thread after looking at the trail maps and youtube vids). I hope I can get a few good days in on the snow out here just to sort of refresh my memory and work the muscles before the CO trip. We'll be there for about a week and I'm hoping to be on the slopes every day.

About carving etc, honestly I'm not too up on the lingo so I may be misinterpreting things. My thought about skidding was that thing I do when I'm on a slope that's too steep for me, so I turn the board sideways and slide down, then gently ease it forward, gain speed, freak out, turn the board sideways again lol. Last year I stopped doing that when things really clicked, which is when I started handling the intermediates without too much trouble. I accept the speed of steeper slopes and I try to stay in turns for no more than 3 - 5 seconds. I lean into my front foot and let that guide the board left/right, so I avoid "chucking my meat" as one video called it (where you fling your back leg side to side to steer).

But I know a diamond slope out here is still too much for me. They rarely look like they have any powder - just that hard packed surface that's super fast and very tough to slow down on, which I'm still intimidated by. Partially because the control is so tough, and partially because a fall on that stuff can really mess you up. On top of that, I'm not even into speed in the first place - I like carving all over the trail, not just pointing straight down and hitting 180mph

Anyway the point is, by the middle of last season I was feeling really good about handling the intermediates, and really attacking the beginner trails with no problem. That's why, looking at the youtube vids of the bowls on Keystone, I was surprised that they were rated as diamonds. On the couple of vids I looked at, the trails looks super powdery and not much more steep that the intermediate (blue square) trails on mount snow. Meaning, in theory, I would have expected to be able to handle them with no problem

 

[Elevation212]

Thank you again, yea I'm really looking forward to this trip (hence starting this thread after looking at the trail maps and youtube vids). I hope I can get a few good days in on the snow out here just to sort of refresh my memory and work the muscles before the CO trip. We'll be there for about a week and I'm hoping to be on the slopes every day.

About carving etc, honestly I'm not too up on the lingo so I may be misinterpreting things. My thought about skidding was that thing I do when I'm on a slope that's too steep for me, so I turn the board sideways and slide down, then gently ease it forward, gain speed, freak out, turn the board sideways again lol. Last year I stopped doing that when things really clicked, which is when I started handling the intermediates without too much trouble. I accept the speed of steeper slopes and I try to stay in turns for no more than 3 - 5 seconds. I lean into my front foot and let that guide the board left/right, so I avoid "chucking my meat" as one video called it (where you fling your back leg side to side to steer).

But I know a diamond slope out here is still too much for me. They rarely look like they have any powder - just that hard packed surface that's super fast and very tough to slow down on, which I'm still intimidated by. Partially because the control is so tough, and partially because a fall on that stuff can really mess you up. On top of that, I'm not even into speed in the first place - I like carving all over the trail, not just pointing straight down and hitting 180mph

Anyway the point is, by the middle of last season I was feeling really good about handling the intermediates, and really attacking the beginner trails with no problem. That's why, looking at the youtube vids of the bowls on Keystone, I was surprised that they were rated as diamonds. On the couple of vids I looked at, the trails looks super powdery and not much more steep that the intermediate (blue square) trails on mount snow. Meaning, in theory, I would have expected to be able to handle them with no problem

I hear you, I’ve always called the hard heel edge the gentle leaf, still use it from time to time when I want to check out a tricky bit for the first time, no reason to take it from the arsenal when things get too much. I wouldn’t worry too much about the single diamond bowls worse case scenario you gentle leaf your way down, some folks may bust your balls about scraping snow etc and you may tier your legs but you’ll of pushed yourself and tried it out. You have your emergency brake if you are over your head. From a safety perspective I think you’ll be fine and after a run you’ll know if it’s for you or not.

 

[Sudden_Death]

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Breckenridge and Keystone bowls for an intermediate boarder


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ToolFan
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Discussion Starter · #1 · 19 h ago

Hi all,

I live in NY and have a trip planned for next month out to Colorado, to snowboard Breckenridge and Keystone. I've never been to either, and have only once been on a mountain out west, skiing about 20 years ago. So I have no idea what to expect, and I'm trying to figure out if the bowls (which look really cool) are above my skill level.

Last winter was my 2nd full season on the board, and things finally clicked and I got a lot more comfortable on all beginner trails and many intermediate trails around NY (at Mount Snow, Hunter, Catamount, Butternet, etc). I think I'm a fairly solid intermediate boarder - I still fall a few times a day, but no bad falls, and I usually know what I did wrong. I still hate and avoid ice and/or snow that's been groomed so solid that it might as well be ice, and I'm likely to fall if I wind up on one of those types of trails. Or to put it another way, I'm fine on powder but I can get shaky elsewhere.

I've been looking at the trail maps for Breckenridge and Keystone, as well as watching some youtube videos. I see that the bowls (above the tree line) are all pretty much diamond or double-diamond. But looking on the youtube videos, the trails don't seem all that steep to me. They don't seem nearly as steep as the diamonds I see out here. I know a video can be misleading though, and steepness can be very hard to judge on a screen.

So, can anyone who has experience out there give me some input in advance? I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, I have no interest in tumbling down a mountain. Is there something else that makes these trails difficult besides just how steep they are?

Thanks in advance!


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Sudden_Death
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#2 · 13 h ago

There are the unmarked hazards like cliffs/drops and since these aren't groomed there can be heavy moguls. When you say intermediate are you full on carving on the blues or are you still skidding your turns? If you have the edge control to carve those runs you might be alright but if you're still skidding your turns you might want to stick to marked groomers.


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MrDavey2Shoes
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#3 · 13 h ago

How’s your fitness? A tracked out bowl can be exhausting. That’s when things get dangerous.

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mjayvee
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#4 · 13 h ago

ToolFan said:
Hi all,

I live in NY and have a trip planned for next month out to Colorado, to snowboard Breckenridge and Keystone. I've never been to either, and have only once been on a mountain out west, skiing about 20 years ago. So I have no idea what to expect, and I'm trying to figure out if the bowls (which look really cool) are above my skill level.

Last winter was my 2nd full season on the board, and things finally clicked and I got a lot more comfortable on all beginner trails and many intermediate trails around NY (at Mount Snow, Hunter, Catamount, Butternet, etc). I think I'm a fairly solid intermediate boarder - I still fall a few times a day, but no bad falls, and I usually know what I did wrong. I still hate and avoid ice and/or snow that's been groomed so solid that it might as well be ice, and I'm likely to fall if I wind up on one of those types of trails. Or to put it another way, I'm fine on powder but I can get shaky elsewhere.

I've been looking at the trail maps for Breckenridge and Keystone, as well as watching some youtube videos. I see that the bowls (above the tree line) are all pretty much diamond or double-diamond. But looking on the youtube videos, the trails don't seem all that steep to me. They don't seem nearly as steep as the diamonds I see out here. I know a video can be misleading though, and steepness can be very hard to judge on a screen.

So, can anyone who has experience out there give me some input in advance? I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, I have no interest in tumbling down a mountain. Is there something else that makes these trails difficult besides just how steep they are?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Let me get this right: you are an intermediate rider, visiting a mountain that you do not ride regularly, and want to take on advanced terrain?

And you are seeking out online advice about this?

Did you Google, Bing, and/or Duck Duck Go search this topic also?

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ToolFan
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Discussion Starter · #5 · 12 h ago

@Sudden_Death for the most part I'm carving through the intermediate stuff. Occasionally on steeper stuff on mount snow I do skid a little. I didn't know about cliffs etc, thanks for that. The YouTube vids I watched all looked pretty tame, just giant bowls of snow.

@MrDavey2Shoes I'm fairly fit but I'm also not used to that kind of altitude so I imagine that can play a role. What does tracked out mean?

@mjayvee congrats on the most worthless comment of the thread so far lol


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Elevation212
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#6 · 6 h ago

ToolFan said:
@Sudden_Death for the most part I'm carving through the intermediate stuff. Occasionally on steeper stuff on mount snow I do skid a little. I didn't know about cliffs etc, thanks for that. The YouTube vids I watched all looked pretty tame, just giant bowls of snow.

@MrDavey2Shoes I'm fairly fit but I'm also not used to that kind of altitude so I imagine that can play a role. What does tracked out mean?

@mjayvee congrats on the most worthless comment of the thread so far lol
Click to expand...

Couple thoughts

1. Watch the snow, a month from now many bowls will still be closed as they typically don’t fill in until January/February

2. If the snows good I’d check my ability to make technical maneuvers on steeps. Being a ice coast rider I find Colorado boarding to be easier to check my speed and maneuver as the snows softer and deeper typically. Go hit a diamond groomer and try stopping/making tight turns on demand (like you are trying to avoid a rock) if you can do that I’d feel pretty comfortable running a bowl

3. Take your first bowl slow, people have mentioned that ungroomes bowls have unmarked hazards. This should be your biggest concern, I haven’t seen many bowls that don’t call out mandatory air so I wouldn’t worry too much about cliffs but rocky patches may or may not be marked. Take it easy the first few times down until you’ve been able to scout it out.

4. Talk to the concierge or mtn safety, typically I find them to have decent advice on where the best cover is and what good starter terrain is

4. Consider a lesson, lessons don’t have to be riding the bunny slope. Call the mountain school and explain what you want to learn, they’ll have instructors and options, I’ve been boarding for 25 years and love to take a lesson each season to get a form tune up and try something new ranging from technical free ride to freestyle, it’s an awesome way to learn while having a guide to take you through optimal terrain for your skill level

Have fun I’ve ridden breck and keystone bowls and found the majority of single diamond to be fun and manageable even in my early days. The most disorienting aspect is in certain light not being able to see terrain features like drops etc, keep your knees bent and stay loose


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Scalpelman
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#7 · 5 h ago

I’m an east coast rider. Advanced intermediate. I went out to CO two years ago and had a blast. The snow is so different there. You’ll have so much fun on piste that if you miss out on the bowls it won’t matter. If there is a dump or the gates drop give it a shot while the pow is fresh. Riding over others tracks without many fresh lines (tracked out) can be a chore. But if it’s fresh it’s a pleasure. Lean way back my friend, lean back. Falling in the deep doesn’t hurt but getting back up is a bitch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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DaveMcI
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#8 · 3 h ago

There really is only one way to find out.

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ToolFan
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Discussion Starter · #9 · 1 h ago

Thanks @Elevation212, very useful pointers. Have you been out east? Can you compare the steepness of a bowl vs intermediate trails in the east?

I still haven't taken a lesson and have been meaning to. This will be a good opportunity for that. Groomed diamonds are definitely still above my skill level, I know I'd just skid down the whole thing. Maybe in a year or two.

@Scalpelman thanks, that's what I've heard from friends, that the snow out there is just powder, and falling doesn't hurt at all because it's so soft. We'll be there over new year's, hopefully there'll be good snow before we arrive and while we're there


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Elevation212
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#10 · 56 m ago

ToolFan said:
Thanks @Elevation212, very useful pointers. Have you been out east? Can you compare the steepness of a bowl vs intermediate trails in the east?

I still haven't taken a lesson and have been meaning to. This will be a good opportunity for that. Groomed diamonds are definitely still above my skill level, I know I'd just skid down the whole thing. Maybe in a year or two.

@Scalpelman thanks, that's what I've heard from friends, that the snow out there is just powder, and falling doesn't hurt at all because it's so soft. We'll be there over new year's, hopefully there'll be good snow before we arrive and while we're there
Click to expand...

Majority of my skiing has been out east, single diamond bowls in Colorado I find to be a bit less steep then single diamonds in the east but a bit more technical.

In regards to your comment on skidding turns I’ll get on my soap box for a moment, people conflate carving and dynamic skids . The majority of true carving is done on mellow angled slopes or wide open steeps without a lot of people. This is due to true carves not bleeding much speed unless you are going to have the space to cut parallel to the fall line sometimes even going back up mountain about. Dynamic skids are going to be 80% of your turns on steeps and crowded slopes.

Go watch the best carvers they call out that there carving is done on greens and mellow blues with low crowds and well groomed snow, it’s super fun but don’t get too fixated on it, instead worry about how you can move your board in useful ways while managing the terrain and crowds while stackin your weight on edge, guiding your turns with your front foot and not counter rotating

I'm aware of the differences and what ideal carving terrain is. I was using the ability to lay a carve on a black as a metric to see if we were talking a true intermediate rider from one who thinks making it down a blue or black alive means they're intermediate. We see it on the forum all the time, the guy who rides 3 days a year and leafs down a groomed black saying they're intermediate and then a guy who can throw a clean 3 and carve switch who also says they're intermediate. People's perception of ability falls on a personal scale. It'd be nice if we followed what my I get when I head out with a new student, I get a sheet with their name and then a level number of 1-7. Until then we have to find out as best we can someone's actual ability level especially when they're asking about terrain that can get them seriously worked.

 

[WigMar]

Ratings are relative to each specific resort. Blacks at Keystone aren't blacks at Crested Butte. Also, Keystone recently upgraded the status of some blues to black- like upper Frenchman. That's a good short black run on the front side that leads right into a fun and flowing blue. You could use it to feel out Keystone's opinion of what blacks are.

The issue with Keystone is that it largely faces into the sun. It sees more freeze and thaw cycles than a lot of Colorado resorts. They have legit ice there, and conditions change throughout the day. Conditions in December are hit or miss as well. Keystone on a powder day is pretty awesome. There's tons of great tree riding there if you're into that.

 

[DaveMcI]

Also learn what a "no fall zone" is and truly means.

 

[deagol]

I can't add to what has already been said except for this: it doesn't really matter if it is a "bowl" or not, except for visibility's sake. Bowl's can have poor visibility in low light conditions and they are more exposed to wind. Low visibility can make a blue feel like a black. There is a run at Crested Butte (Rambo) that is so %^^$ steep that it's way harder than any bowl I've been in probably anywhere, and definitely harder than anything at Keystone. Lake Chutes at Breckenridge has some legit steep stuff there but there's no way in &&^ it will be open that early in the season. Snow has not been good this year and some resorts (Beaver Creek is one I know of) how postponed their opening date as a result.

so the factors that make a run hard:
pitch (steepness)
snow condition
aspect (affects visibility & snow conditions)
visibility (amount of sun and/or wind)
consequences (terrain traps or obstacles)
crowding (this is a huge one IMO)
altitude (affects your stamina)

 

[Elevation212]

I'm aware of the differences and what ideal carving terrain is. I was using the ability to lay a carve on a black as a metric to see if we were talking a true intermediate rider from one who thinks making it down a blue or black alive means they're intermediate. We see it on the forum all the time, the guy who rides 3 days a year and leafs down a groomed black saying they're intermediate and then a guy who can throw a clean 3 and carve switch who also says they're intermediate. People's perception of ability falls on a personal scale. It'd be nice if we followed what my I get when I head out with a new student, I get a sheet with their name and then a level number of 1-7. Until then we have to find out as best we can someone's actual ability level especially when they're asking about terrain that can get them seriously worked.

agreed a list of general guidelines

I'm aware of the differences and what ideal carving terrain is. I was using the ability to lay a carve on a black as a metric to see if we were talking a true intermediate rider from one who thinks making it down a blue or black alive means they're intermediate. We see it on the forum all the time, the guy who rides 3 days a year and leafs down a groomed black saying they're intermediate and then a guy who can throw a clean 3 and carve switch who also says they're intermediate. People's perception of ability falls on a personal scale. It'd be nice if we followed what my I get when I head out with a new student, I get a sheet with their name and then a level number of 1-7. Until then we have to find out as best we can someone's actual ability level especially when they're asking about terrain that can get them seriously worked.

you got a good idea, this forum should have a general rating scale for these conversations that calls out capabilities, get everyone somewhat on the same page. Get how it’s hard, I’d call myself advanced free rider but a novice park rider but some rule of thumb would make these conversations easier.

also perhaps some terms glossary, my reaction to carving was simply from my understanding of carving being a turn that allowed you to gain speed where a dynamic skid can look a lot like a carve but is about turning while bleeding speed

 

[ToolFan]

@Sudden_Death & @Elevation212 Agreed, I understand what you mean. I used to rock climb when I was in college, and the routes have ratings there as well, for example 5.9 for advanced intermediate. I didn't consider myself a 5.9 climber until I could climb any 5.9 without a problem. As opposed to someone who climbed just one and fell on every hard part. Or a guy at the gym who wants to say he benches 300, so he gets someone to spot him and basically use all their strength to help him push the weight up just once. So same thing with snowboarding. I think I'm intermediate because I can handle blue trails without much trouble, not just skidding down fearfully, but moving into the trail (and enjoying it) instead of trying to stop myself constantly. I can do this on several mountains as well, which also matters because as has been noted, the ratings are relative to the mountain. But, I do still fall a couple of times a day, so I know I'm not an expert who can handle anything. Hope that makes sense!

@DaveMcI I'd never heard the term "no fall zone" before. Just googled it, that's interesting. So are the bowls all no fall zones?

@deagol I hadn't thought much about the visibility thing. I guess I took it for granted that I'd be able to see lol but after this thread I'm starting to understand how it can be an issue, and can make a trail much harder than usual.

 

[deagol]

@deagol I hadn't thought much about the visibility thing. I guess I took it for granted that I'd be able to see lol but after this thread I'm starting to understand how it can be an issue, and can make a trail much harder than usual.

you could be fine.

Example: clear sunny skies and no wind and you'll be able to see fine.
... or cloudy, maybe snowing, heavy wind and it could suck....especially if it's icy.

or most likely somewhere between the 2 above extremes.

 

[DaveMcI]

If you haven't encountered a no fall zone then perhaps a guided " lesson" with an instructor might be a good way to curb your worry.