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You will never make amazing progress late in the day, I would even say the first 2 hours of the day are your window for experimental riding, while conditions are best and the crowds are still making their way to the mountain, you get your work done then dial it back a bit and enjoy the rest of the day.
So true. Make first chair if you want to practice!
 

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I always get frustrated as the day goes on and then my wife will be like “dude all the corduroy is gone and it’s lumpy” and I’ll be like “wtf don’t call me dude, bro.”

anyway, yea morning for experimenting afternoons for cruising and having a good time!
 

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I totally agree.when I first started this I was bearing too much weight but now I try to estimate the forces of the turn based on speed and pitch and then try to match that with how much weight I throw inside the arc. When I get it wrong I touch my bum on the snow and the nose of the board skips around, when I get it right I hover 1cm off the surface of the snow without touching and that puts a big smile on my face ;)
For sure. When you’re perfectly balanced against the force, dragging a finger or two, or not, your prerogative, thats the sweet spot. I don’t get there much heelside, my bum can’t take the risk of overshooting the sweet spot on hardpack. Water or soft snow, it’s on.
 

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Discussion Starter #864
. The thing with that crew/ resort is, the same style of riding is f'ing everywhere
It's the same here too, anyone who can carve does it in the exact same style, quality heel turns but hunched over toe turns.
Also they only make turns in one size, they cannot keep their style in a larger turn size so it becomes this monotonous rhythm without consideration for the terrain features.
It's really important that the style you have as a rider works in more than one certain set of conditions.
 

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Discussion Starter #865
For sure. When you’re perfectly balanced against the force, dragging a finger or two, or not, your prerogative, thats the sweet spot. I don’t get there much heelside, my bum can’t take the risk of overshooting the sweet spot on hardpack. Water or soft snow, it’s on.
Ass padding and tape bro, get into it :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 

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Discussion Starter #866 (Edited)
So today the sun finally came out, no powder for once lol and groomers were perfect so I got a really good chance to work on some of these new concepts.
I focused on rear knee driving and continual squatting throughout my heel turns and it worked really good.
The continual squat with FF stance equates to continual rearward weighting, so no more thinking about weighting my heel turns anymore, I have automated that job and it works perfectly from steep terrain right out into the flats. The knee drive compliments it perfectly.
I used to require a certain amount of speed or pitch do get my carve on but today it was there no matter how fast I was going.
Hula hoop is working very well and I am achieving a full arch in my toe turns unlike last season. Things are looking good to take some footage on friday up at Shiga Kogen.
 

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It's the same here too, anyone who can carve does it in the exact same style, quality heel turns but hunched over toe turns.
Also they only make turns in one size, they cannot keep their style in a larger turn size so it becomes this monotonous rhythm without consideration for the terrain features.
It's really important that the style you have as a rider works in more than one certain set of conditions.
I've been thinking about their turn size and shape too. Their riding reminds me of the ski slalom racers who hit the gates at very regular intervals, but they don't have gates to dictate their turn, just their sidecut.

Glad you finally got some sunshine. I hope some of that powder is heading my way!
 

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Discussion Starter #868
I've been thinking about their turn size and shape too. Their riding reminds me of the ski slalom racers who hit the gates at very regular intervals, but they don't have gates to dictate their turn, just their sidecut.

Glad you finally got some sunshine. I hope some of that powder is heading my way!
100% on the slalom skier comment.
Because the forces of the turn are quite low you don't get much hang time availability and end up rushing everything as a result.
 

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Thats pretty funny, you've got a powder problem and the rest of us are starving for snow!


I remember early in this thread you posted a video, not sure if it was the hula hoop or the dolphin dance but there was something about "squeezing it out" at the end of the heel motion. It almost feels like using your back foot to push the board forward (nose - tail not heel - toe) while you move around behind it. The motion fell into place yesterday as a result of working on earlier exits from my heelside carve.

Here are my thoughts, and you know all this already.

Wow, for me it is the missing piece to the Hula Hoop motion. It allows the board to unweight and just tip over onto the toe edge while you're still low so all you have to do is rise up and push your hips toeside as you rise toward your nose and bang, back into position for a heel turn. When done this way the board locks in very tight allowing you to move freely above the board without much concern about the edge hold. When you get it right its right, however I rushed it a few times and that overtightens to toeside way to soon and I went over the bars. The video of that girl you posted shows the "Squeeze" clearly. Watching her front leg really helped me.

I think I'm starting to get my heels pretty low, compared to where I started. I think I'm making progress as far as butt above snow and can drag that lead hand more frequently but my upper body is still pretty vertical. It almost feels like I'm reaching for the snow in order to get lower instead of getting lower and being able to touch the snow. Subtle difference and I think you'll understand what I'm trying to say. I need to keep working this motion and dialing in the timing and the rest will come eventually.

Man, this is hard to type about, I've edited this over and over and I think I've gotten close enough to what I want to say.
 

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Discussion Starter #870 (Edited)
Thats pretty funny, you've got a powder problem and the rest of us are starving for snow!


I remember early in this thread you posted a video, not sure if it was the hula hoop or the dolphin dance but there was something about "squeezing it out" at the end of the heel motion. It almost feels like using your back foot to push the board forward (nose - tail not heel - toe) while you move around behind it. The motion fell into place yesterday as a result of working on earlier exits from my heelside carve.

Here are my thoughts, and you know all this already.

Wow, for me it is the missing piece to the Hula Hoop motion. It allows the board to unweight and just tip over onto the toe edge while you're still low so all you have to do is rise up and push your hips toeside as you rise toward your nose and bang, back into position for a heel turn. When done this way the board locks in very tight allowing you to move freely above the board without much concern about the edge hold. When you get it right its right, however I rushed it a few times and that overtightens to toeside way to soon and I went over the bars. The video of that girl you posted shows the "Squeeze" clearly. Watching her front leg really helped me.

I think I'm starting to get my heels pretty low, compared to where I started. I think I'm making progress as far as butt above snow and can drag that lead hand more frequently but my upper body is still pretty vertical. It almost feels like I'm reaching for the snow in order to get lower instead of getting lower and being able to touch the snow. Subtle difference and I think you'll understand what I'm trying to say. I need to keep working this motion and dialing in the timing and the rest will come eventually.

Man, this is hard to type about, I've edited this over and over and I think I've gotten close enough to what I want to say.
Dude I read that almost with a tear in my carving eye lol.
Yesterday I played with being vertical to start my heel turns VS staying super low like knapton does and I actually prefer to start high. It feels better and works well with this style of heel turn.
So it really is an up down motion with the start of the heel turn being the peak and the start of the toe turn being the trough.

When you start your toe turn you need to be on edge but not inside the arc just yet. Keep your weight over the board for a second or two until you feel it start to come around, then allow yourself to fall inside the arc. I call this moment Michael Jackson because it feels like this
156304
 

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Discussion Starter #871
I think I'm making progress as far as butt above snow and can drag that lead hand more frequently but my upper body is still pretty vertical. It almost feels like I'm reaching for the snow in order to get lower instead of getting lower and being able to touch the snow.
It sounds like you have a slight mismatch in your body weight vs the forces of the turn. Try doing the same thing on a steeper run and you might find the sweet spot comes to you rather than you searching for it.
 

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Hey! I read some of the posts here, a lot of information and I'm starting to lose what's what.

I've been trying to get lower on my heelside in the same way as you're doing. I'm just calling it japan style carving, as most of the jp riders I watch ride like that. It's sth like watching European SITS school :D
I really dig that style but had a lot of trouble getting lower.
I concluded, my upper body is not facing forward enough. I tend to open and leave my "upper body behind. That's one error I'm making, but I most trouble I have is with the timing of all the movements when entering heelside turn. When I'm trying to go low, close to the board edge - I don't know how to straighten my legs to stay low on the ground, I fall (went down too much?.
And when I'm thinking about my butt touching the ground, my butt goes low, but I lean forward with my upper body (the instinct to keep the balance? nothing else comes to my mind why I do that).

Any tips on how should I approach heelside to turn from low stance when ending toeside turn?

Here's me trying my best from the start of the season. I really like some of the toesides turns how they look. I also see, that entering heelside, I only go down, not charging/leaning forward. Like I was thinking that I will get low enough to the ground to touch my lead hand if I only duck more.
Any tips on how to jump to the next level? How should I start my turn? Should I leave my hips stady and only turn my upper body and open? Or should I work with my hips too getting low on heelside?

This is so far the best video I found showing how to get to what I want to do.

From what I see, this rider is starting to move his upper body and shoulder way before the turn (I'm doing it at the peak of each turn, so maybe I'm too late?). I'm used to keeping my upper and lower body in the same plane, maybe that's why I cannot go that low?
Anyway, I'm planning to do drills he shows here, as I think they will lead me eventually to that awesome heelside position. Any thoughts on that?
And if I'll start this shoulder movement and get low, when should I start to push my knees and try to straighten them up to create a force that will hold me above the ground with my ass? :)

As MrDavey wrote...so hard to express what you want to say in my own language...so I hope you understand my questions and concerns :).
 

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Discussion Starter #873
Hey! I read some of the posts here, a lot of information and I'm starting to lose what's what.

I've been trying to get lower on my heelside in the same way as you're doing. I'm just calling it japan style carving, as most of the jp riders I watch ride like that. It's sth like watching European SITS school :D
I really dig that style but had a lot of trouble getting lower.
I concluded, my upper body is not facing forward enough. I tend to open and leave my "upper body behind. That's one error I'm making, but I most trouble I have is with the timing of all the movements when entering heelside turn. When I'm trying to go low, close to the board edge - I don't know how to straighten my legs to stay low on the ground, I fall (went down too much?.
And when I'm thinking about my butt touching the ground, my butt goes low, but I lean forward with my upper body (the instinct to keep the balance? nothing else comes to my mind why I do that).

Any tips on how should I approach heelside to turn from low stance when ending toeside turn?

Here's me trying my best from the start of the season. I really like some of the toesides turns how they look. I also see, that entering heelside, I only go down, not charging/leaning forward. Like I was thinking that I will get low enough to the ground to touch my lead hand if I only duck more.
Any tips on how to jump to the next level? How should I start my turn? Should I leave my hips stady and only turn my upper body and open? Or should I work with my hips too getting low on heelside?

This is so far the best video I found showing how to get to what I want to do.

From what I see, this rider is starting to move his upper body and shoulder way before the turn (I'm doing it at the peak of each turn, so maybe I'm too late?). I'm used to keeping my upper and lower body in the same plane, maybe that's why I cannot go that low?
Anyway, I'm planning to do drills he shows here, as I think they will lead me eventually to that awesome heelside position. Any thoughts on that?
And if I'll start this shoulder movement and get low, when should I start to push my knees and try to straighten them up to create a force that will hold me above the ground with my ass? :)

As MrDavey wrote...so hard to express what you want to say in my own language...so I hope you understand my questions and concerns :).
Just quickly what stance angles are you running?
 

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Just quickly what stance angles are you running?
On this vid +18/-6 - my standard freeride/carving stance.

I've tried +30/+12 for the first time this year, and dig it, but I would love to learn doing that with 18/-6 as I do more freeride than riding on piste.
  • way easier to engage both turns
  • I was thinking I'm getting lover, until I saw video and my friend who recorded told me, I'm not (so after changing the settings it just seemed to me that i was lower)
  • I found this angles very stable when charging hard on moguls, little jumps - loved it
  • I had no idea what to do exactly with my back knee.It's lose, and doesn't work while Im in turn.
  • harder , much harder to do speedcheck in powder, but maybe that's because that was my first tries

Here's clip when I started riding 30/12 (except part I'm riding below line, it's 18/-6) maybe you can judge how changing angles changed my ride. I'm too biased,watched myself to many times already and can't be objective anymore o_O One difference is that I was riding Nitro Pantera above, and here is Dropout, which isn't as good carver as Pantera

edit: sorry for so much content, but I don't have access to my riding RAW files for a while:/
 

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Discussion Starter #875 (Edited)
Ok, firstly congratulations on your english ability, its high level 🤟 🤟 🤟

Now there is a lot to look at here but first I will talk about the instructional video you posted.
You are right, that is Japan style 100%, its not a great style in my opinion because I really dislike that toe turn where the rider is heavily squatted. I am working very hard to NOT look like that in my toe turns. Also the rider doesnt get very low on heel turns because the upper body rotation is poor at the end of the toe turn. They need to really over emphasize the upper body rotation at the end of the toe turn if they want to get lower in heel turns.

Now before we talk about your turns, you need to understand that you are trying to learn something new, and that your stance is making it hard to physically achieve, so I strongly recommend you change your back foot angle to a positive angle while you are trying to learn it.



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This is your best toe turn style, hips forward in a nice arch, its a strong position and looks cool
156309


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This is your worst toe turn style, bent over at the waist and squatting
156310



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This is you beginning a heel turn, you have not yet changed edges but your upper body is already well into its heel friendly position. You need to be rotated heavily the opposite way at this point, then as you cross over to the heel edge your butt will fall forward as you squat and you will be able to get much lower in the turn with much better edge hold too.
156311


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This is your static upper body throughout the heel turn, the rear arm never moves, the upper body never rotates more and therefore the turn is not a complete one. You should try swinging that rear arm around continually as the turn progresses.
That static rear arm haunts nearly every duck footed rider I see.
156312


Also there is a lot of pointing down hill in your riding, to become a good carver you need to be pointing across the hill most of the time but your resort looks a little dangerous to be trying that with so many people so be careful
 

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Ok, firstly congratulations on your english ability, its high level 🤟 🤟 🤟
Thanks for the kind words!

Now there is a lot to look at here but first I will talk about the instructional video you posted.
You are right, that is Japan style 100%, its not a great style in my opinion because I really dislike that toe turn where the rider is heavily squatted. I am working very hard to NOT look like that in my toe turns.
Could you post img of proper in your opinion deep toeside turn? Now, thinking about it, I see that I bent my waist on purpose to be able to touch the ground (so it wasn't a natural position, but forced). I always judged my position in terms of straight line with the board.
156314


I think in my mind that's what I'm trying emulate
156315


I see how we're roated with hips differently.
What's the exemplary position that you have in mind? Something like on photo above or completly different? (example photo would be great)



Also the rider doesnt get very low on heel turns because the upper body rotation is poor at the end of the toe turn. They need to really over emphasize the upper body rotation at the end of the toe turn if they want to get lower in heel turns.
Yeah I noticed that, but It seemed ok as it's fluid movement, up and down, and looked composed :) Anyway I understand that's a different variation, let's leave it then.


Now before we talk about your turns, you need to understand that you are trying to learn something new, and that your stance is making it hard to physically achieve, so I strongly recommend you change your back foot angle to a positive angle while you are trying to learn it.
Roger,I'll use 30/12 to practice this.


1
This is your best toe turn style, hips forward in a nice arch, its a strong position and looks cool
View attachment 156309
Ok I see, that's my "no effort" toeside, without charging.
I prefer this kind of toeturn (aggressive) - or this little bent in waist isn't good?
156316



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This is your worst toe turn style, bent over at the waist and squatting
<answer above>

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This is you beginning a heel turn, you have not yet changed edges but your upper body is already well into its heel friendly position. You need to be rotated heavily the opposite way at this point, then as you cross over to the heel edge your butt will fall forward as you squat and you will be able to get much lower in the turn with much better edge hold too.
View attachment 156311
Ok got it.I can even visualise it :)

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This is your static upper body throughout the heel turn, the rear arm never moves, the upper body never rotates more and therefore the turn is not a complete one. You should try swinging that rear arm around continually as the turn progresses.
That static rear arm haunts nearly every duck footed rider I see.
Th View attachment 156312
Ok got it, you right, I'm locking myself to early as I understand? I should continue to open into left side auntil I touch the ground?

Also there is a lot of pointing down hill in your riding, to become a good carver you need to be pointing across the hill most of the time but your resort looks a little dangerous to be trying that with so many people so be careful
Fair point. I'm so used to ride downdoing just smal edge changes and I worked a bit last season, to make those turns longer and start to change edge when I'm riding across the slope.
I always look out before deeper turns :)

---
Thanks for that! If you have anything other to add please share. I'm going to bed so I'll have time to think about your tips.
 

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Discussion Starter #877
A little bend in your waist is ok, and when conditions are bumpy you need it, but for pure carving style I like the arched body position, it just looks and feels good.
I spent all last season trying to do toe turns but they looked the same as yours, everyone is doing them like that but there's something not quite right about it and I was never happy with it.
I could never stretch myself out all the way to an arch but this season I have it worked out, hopefully tomorrow my buddy will take some footage for me.
 

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@Kijima absolutely right, I’m out of time somewhere. I’ll hunt it down over my next few days out. I hope! I related to that MJ picture, it does feel like everything is in your toes.

@Snowdaddy
Wolken is one of my favorite riders too but he’s almost unattainable. You fall down riding like Wolken and something is breaking for sure. That being said if I ever find myself on a Korua on a groomer as nice as the ones in the YFT videos I’m going for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #880
Remove squat is beautiful IMO
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