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Didn't read everything,so if this got addressed, never mind. ?

But when Mervin is calling the C3 "Its most aggressive?" They could be referring to JUST the amount of camber. A lot of arc in the camber would be "aggressive" camber. Less arc is a more Mellow camber. It Doesn't necessarily have to refer to the overall ride aggressiveness of the board. ?‍♂ I would say the two usually correlate, but they don't have to!

I bought, rode & returned a Jones Flagship in faver of a Jones Explorer. BOTH boards are CamRoc. Camber between the inserts & out to rocker in the tail with early rise rocker in the nose.

Altho both had the exact same basic profile, the FS was a LOT stiffer & had much more arc to its camber section than the Explorer.

Both boards do hard charging and can hold an edge,... however, in this particular example, the FS was overall, a much more Agressive, hard charging board than the Explorer.

Sometimes all this tech jargon can make things LESS clear rather than informative. ?‍♂?
 

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There are times when less is more aggressive. My example is the old billygoat c2btx. Because it was torsionally loose but the cambered sections were plank stiff; it liked to keep its nose within 25 degrees of the fall line and ate up natty terrain. You could take off wanky, land wonky and because of it being torsionally loose the nose and tail would absorb the terrain but the 2 stiff cambered sections would keep you up and going...so it liked to run down the fall line...just like a frick'n billygoat running downhill. But it did not like to get transverse of the fall line to trench big C carves and would tend to loose the edge because of the rocker in the middle did not allow a full pressured edge that you get in a full cambered profile. So when blasting a groomer and needing to shift down, it didn't like to hockey stop and thus you had to scarve a few times to slow down before doing a hockey stop.

Gnu's advertising did not really explain all of this in any techincal format and merely released Temple's vid "Drizzle" in which if you look and analyze closely you can somewhat determine the above. Methinks that Gnu would not do a technical description because it would scare off alot of folks. Anyway for the first year the board certianly rode my ass before figuring out that I had to up my skills and get mentally aggressive with it. And then a few years later, they did the billygoat in a C3 profile to which I would think is more tame/controllable than the c2 wilder beast. Now compared to Barret's Bpro c2btx (which I had both at the same time) did not have the torsional loosness and had full mag. Basically the same profile, stiff cambered sections but the Bpro was more of a hotrod and tearing up any terrain and was more controllable and you could reign it in. Verses the c2 Billygoat just wanted to run down hill.

Btw the old c2 had 1/2 or mellow mag and you didn't feel it like full mag, infact you didn't notice it until at the very last moment that you thought you should be loosing the edge and it held in there...really riding the razor's edge before loosing it.

So point is, imho the c2 takes more agressive required skills of being dynamic verses c3/traditional camber is relatively less dynamic and more of a cruise missle ride but you got to be comfortable with the speed...its a matter of what you want to ride.
 

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I think it's simple. Wavy boards whether camber profile or magnetraction on the edge can ride bumpy. C3 is the least likely to do so but there is a huuuuge variation in what C3 actually is. The C3 on a Mullair is way different than on a Hot Knife.

Stiffer traditional camber boards are extremely predictable by comparison. You have contact points at the tips and spring out of turns and that's it. You either carve on them or flat base correctly or you fall.

I think you want a traditional camber board, maybe slight rocker in the tips to be more maneuverable at low speed.

It sounds like stiff responsive boots and bindings might help too if you're used to hard boots.

When I got back on a traditional camber board after years of riding CRC getting off the lift was really easy. Camber tracks really well on one foot and doesn't spin around squirrelly on harder snow. If you're having trouble in camber off a lift, it's probably technique and not being used to the board's width rather than the board itself.
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
I agree.

Not sure what Mervin is actually trying to say with that but I never took it that they are claiming aggresive relative to all boards, just theirs. I'm far from someone that knows a lot about boards but even I knew I was in the "hybrid realm" a board with rocker. So I took it to be a relative term. Relative to the hybrid boards they sell it is the most aggressive. I was stepping down to a less aggressive board, one with rocker that would be more loosey goosey than what I had. But I didn't want to jump all the way down the spectrum so that description helped me choose which to buy.
I'm quoting myself, is that allowed, lol. Anyway I just found this on the GNU site;

"Rocker Type: C3 TechnologyAggressive dominant cambers out to the contacts combined with mild rocker between your feet. Subtle Banana rocker gives freestyle freedom with maximum end to end stability for big, high-speed lines. For aggressive, skilled riders."

So...according the Mervin (not me!) they are calling the camber aggressive as Chomps alluded to. But they are also claiming it's for aggressive riders. I would have to say no to that. Yeah I can hold an edge and go fast while going almost straight with very shallow S curves. In fact it feels stable and good at high speed. But...back to what this thread is about, if the board chug's and bucks a bit when opening the board (increasing angle) to check my speed then it really isn't aggressive. Maybe it's my weight (214 lbs.) as 5 other reviewers on the EVO site really liked it and didn't mention it. One guy did say it could get "grabby". Maybe what I'm feeling is what he called grabby, not sure. Either way it's a great board, is stable when going fast but no, it is not an aggressive board.
 

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You're probably getting hung up on the marketing speak, which is targeting new and intermediate riders. Expert riders who ride aggressively ignore the marketing because they know what they want. And all of this is relative; I could "aggressively" price a house low to sell quickly; "aggressive" camber in cool snowboard marketing-speak just means that there's more of it. "Aggressive" is an overused word but they're really not trying to sell the $400 Anti-gravity as an expert-level board, they're trying to warn low-intermediate riders to buy something else so they don't catch an edge and get hurt.

The marketing for the anti-gravity on Evo says it's for intermediate to advanced riders, so looks like a middle of the road kind of board despite what the generic C3 marketing is. And C3 is just one aspect of the overall board. Put a lot of camber on a soft-flexing board makes it more aggressive than a rocker board all else being equal, but that doesn't mean the board overall is very aggressive just because it's cambered. It's a package deal.

I know the bumpiness you're talking about; it's why I got rid of a Hot Knife in favor of Rome Mod which is stiff with traditional camber and a lot of it. Burton, Rome, and a few others make straight-ahead traditional cambered boards with no wavy edge tech you'd probably much be happier with if the bumpiness bugs you. You'd probably love the Burton Custom X, Rome Blur, or Arbor A-Frame, boards like that. Those with stiff boots and bindings and you'll have no trouble controlling them off a lift.
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
I went into a shop that specializes in boards not skiis. The manager immediately knew the chatter I'm complaining about. The manager felt it was absoluteley the rocker. He wasn't thrilled with CRC and suggested a RCR board (as others have on this thread). He said my board would be okay for a mid mountain board by ridden by a lighter guy.

The only boards the shop demoed were Burton and Jones. He recommended the Flagship.

Before I joined this forum I never even heard of a Jones board I don't know a lot about boards but I've heard about plenty of others, Burton, Never Summer, Ride, Lib Tech, Rome, etc. Just not Jones.

I am now the proud owner of a 2020 Jones Flagship 167. Dang I had fun on that board today. Charges hard and so stable even with my 225 lbs. Digs deep trenches when carving. Slices right through the crud and bumps. I can slide around on flats and easy to get off the lifts. Very cool.

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I have a mini snowboard (rossi 123cm), Rome Artifact Rocker, and a Hot Knife. I've also ridden a Donek SRT.
When they say C3 being aggressive, they're talking about it relative to other all-mountain boards. My Hot Knife is supposed to "turn ice into powder". Compared to my Artifact or my old Flow Quantum, it's amazing. Compared to the Donek (full camber directional) it isn't very aggressive, good at holding an edge, or going fast. A directional, stiff board like the Flagship is going to make a twin C3 board feel bad.

You did good getting rid of it. My Hot Knife is fun to ride, but I think I'd be happier with a directional board like you have and a noodle rocker for the park. I'm very displeased with the craftsmanship of my Hot Knife.

The board dimpled extremely easy on the bottom where you mount your bindings. I've never had that happen with ANY other board I've had. Because the metal edge doesn't wrap around, when you're riding through nasty stuff (like ice marbles), the marbles are bouncing off the edge where there's no metal leaving little dents. The back edge has raw deck hitting the snow when you carve, so it's wearing down the base where the metal edge ends. The board is a little over a year old and there's already a solid step between where the metal edge ends and starts.

I have a really good feeling my Hot Knife will be dull and ready to be replaced by the end of the year. And my Flow Quantum lasted for a good 6 years of constant abuse. I think those brands are a lot of marketing fluff. They sell you the Hot Knife and tell you it's great for ice and bad conditions. And then the bad conditions beat the crap out of your board because there's no metal edges all the way around the board, it's got an extruded base, etc. Definitely the last "mervin made" board I ever get.
 

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I ride a Jones Flagship and the mild mag makes the board 'vibrate' at high speed when carving on hardpack, it feels like you are using a messager on low speed. You can definitely tell its the mild mag as you won't notice it if the surface isn't hard enough, and the "rate" will change with speed. Overall it's pretty mild and only noticeable in certain situations, overall it is the most versatile big mountain board I have rode.
 

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I bet a binding with a cushier base plate will take care of those “vibrations”. Maybe not though, but I’ve not experienced that. However I ride full camber with no edge disruption on hardpack days. Also I maintain that it’s the flex not the C3 profile that made the AG skip or hop. Anyway enjoy the Flagship, looks rad!
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
I ride a Jones Flagship and the mild mag makes the board 'vibrate' at high speed when carving on hardpack, it feels like you are using a messager on low speed. You can definitely tell its the mild mag as you won't notice it if the surface isn't hard enough, and the "rate" will change with speed. Overall it's pretty mild and only noticeable in certain situations, overall it is the most versatile big mountain board I have rode.
Vibration oh yeah, now I realize your talking bout the same phenomenon I had on the GNU board. Yes it still occurs on my Flagship. But it is so negligible I can live with it no problem.

Why does it do that? I think everybody that's read this thread is over trying to figure that out. The four main ideas is it's the magnatraction or it's the rocker or it's the shape of the hybrid or it's the flex. Now that I found a board I love I really don't care anymore I'm sure most everybody reading this r doesn't care anymore either, bottom line is it does it. Probably not for all riders in all conditions but it vibrates, ossicilates, whatever you call it

I'll keep my antigravity, how it goes through hard pack I could hear it crunching through and digging in and it gives me a feeling of confidence. But it's only for use on my smaller local mountain when I'm chilling out or in the hardpack. It's the Jones for everything else I'm having another Day loving it. Edges just digging in and making me feel comfortable.
 
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