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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
It's been a long time I'm trapped in the dilemma of board choices in relation to what it's designed for, vs. skills and understandings to how to use, master and expand the board for what it's and might be capable of.

I am forever looking for an ideal daily driver, a workhorse, that I can take it out anytime, any day and any condition yet feel comfortable and enjoyable riding it. I am leaning towards all mountain freeride, don't do parks at all. Into carving (still learning), love moguls (they don't yet love me back, but it's OK we do talk and we do improve our relationships from time to time), enjoy pow but rarely get it where I ride so not of a big concern to me, as long as it performs okayish in pow.

Local resort is a rocky mountain with sever wind, getting less and less snow over the years, bit wet and cold, so icy and sketchy conditions is a regular unavoidable thing, same as crowd (can dodge that to a certain degree by going off-piste). Ice, chunder, crud, choppy, bumpy terrain, you name it, we get it. Lol, it's more of survival rather than performance most of the time. But it has its moments, also it gives us weekend warriors a chance to snowboard, and I am sure there are places way worse. Added perk is wherever you go the next, you'd normally feel it's heaven like (eg. Canada, Japan, even NZ South). We turn to have low enjoyment threshold, very easily pleased. 馃槀 So not complaining.

My current situation with boards is: I have a daily driver (Rossi Diva 152, older version that has 1.25cm set back instead of true twin), good but can be better, also weakening over time, potentially need replacement at some stage. PS. I am 162cm tall, 64kg, 23.5cm foot length, using Burton Lexa size M bindings.
I love it, but want a bit more out of it, more speed, more edge hold. Yet don't want to compromise any on agility.
Over the time, I've also added Jones Flagship 158, and Burton Custom X 150 while knowing they're unlikely to be right for me for size, terrain etc., but limited stock and deals in NZ especially for women, and when you see a great board on great deal, it's hard to keep your hands off the deck (believe me, I've tried, and tried hard, and thank you again for the help from the mighty forum, at least I didn't get the Rossi XV! 馃き)!

What I find is, Flagship is certainly not a daily driver, mainly for it's size. Despite how amazing it is to ride in open terrain and low nerd ration on slope, for me it's not nimble enough to tackle all, even majority of the daily riding situations I face. But not regretting buying it at all, when conditions are right and permitting, it's a sensational feeling riding it.

Now problem comes with Burton Custom X 150 (I was looking for Custom, but can't find any with decent price, yet saw a jaw dropping deal at local store for X, basically, half price! Also Jake Burton passed away in the same year, so it even had some sentimental value to get a signature and one and first Burton board in my collection, also it's the legendary true camber! So what can I say, had to get it! Lol, Jake probably wouldn't appreicate my cheap sentiment that only comes to realisation when in discount).
Originally I imagined it will just be the same as Flagship, wrong for me as a daily driver, but has its moments, once in a while when all stars align, it will be marvellous. However took it out for a ride yesterday, was amazed how good it is, and wonder what's the potential it can just be the next and right daily driver for me?
  • It's strange, although fast, but it's not slippery at all (when I got my Rossi, changed from a flat rocker 143 noodle, I felt like standing on a piece of hard glass on sheer ice, that it can slip off fast under my feet any moment), when standing along lift queues, it's really stable, locked in, only moves where you want it to move, not a single moment I felt like it's going to slip, and not saying that it's sticky either. It's just easy and stable, knowing and holding the place right. I can easily stand one footed, doing some yoga poses without it slippering at all. It just stays there.

  • It's fast, but incredibly stable. I rode over crud and chunder like nothing, where I used to feel the vibration and struggle under feet. Yeah, struggle, didn't used to think it's struggling, but riding this board in comparison, how easy it handles it seems to suggest my Rossi (current daily driver) was potentially struggling.

  • It's very lively, I'm not the athletic type, jump doesn't come to me naturally, majority of the times I only get air when speed and rebound gives it to me and I just catch that wave with little effort (well, it's actually much more enjoyable type of air to me anyway). But when riding this board, it just naturally wants to get and give you some air, in a very manageable and effortless way.

  • Edge hold yet to be tested more, but seems to be promising. Came off icy steeper slope without a fuss which was out of my surprise. I don't even think my daily driver can do it that well. Yet my daily driver has mag-traction, supposed to be better at edge hold in ice conditions. I never thought camber would have better edge grip than camber dominant hybrid with mag-traction, but now thinking may need further test to see, it might just be a pleasant surprise added.

  • When driving it, it has a strange feeling I'm not yet fully understanding and able to utilize to my benefit (sigh, hours of waiting in lift queue, with constant breakdowns of lifts due to technical issues, only barely managed 2 runs on the upper mountain). It's locked in, I wouldn't say it's grippy, but small and quick turns are much much harder, not sure if it's the true camber (my first camber board) or greatly reduced torsional flex.
Now comes to some concerns...:
  • It really likes speed... Good and bad things for me.

    Good is I need speed, that doesn't come naturally from my character. Being a timid and cautious rider whom enjoys view and cruising around mountain get to places wherever I want to with ease, I am not into big crazy aggressive stuff at all, I prefer and naturally go slow. To me what I enjoy most about snowboarding is the freedom and sense of relaxation, yes, instead of adrenaline rush and physical challenges, I find it relaxing and mind soothing... (probably a little weird I know, but hey, people are different馃槑). So speed, is always something I am lacking yet needing, many things can't be achieved without speed, and to get me out the long flats and trapped down the valley, I need speed. One and only time I've managed to increase speed in a controlled and comfortable manner is, changing board (from 143 noodle to 152 7/10 flex charger). And it seems to been proven useful continuing to now, Custom X is naturally faster, no extra effort from me needed other than ride it.

    Bad thing is... dodging crowd on over populated blue & green runs... it likes to go fast... slowing down seems to be fighting against its nature. And greatly reduced torsional flex means trying to turn it quickly at low speed is painful if not impossible (at least for me and for now).
    Then, causing my other concerns beyond managing crowded runs - reduced overall agility. What can I do in moguls, narrow steep runs, etc. that I need quick and small turns?

    And this brings to my major confusion and struggle:
    Can this just be my daily driver, as it's so promising and feels so right in many aspects? Is it up the skill, and knowing better how to mange the board all that needed to make it right? If so, how? What should I look into (I still find pivot turns are the fastest turns, not in traveling speed of course, just talking about turning itself, extremely useful for narrow steep runs and moguls, also navigating through crowd. Is this the right understanding? Or am I just been limited by my ability, skills and imagination)?
    What should I know more about this board, how it wants to be treated to tackle the areas now lacking?

    Or for what Custom X is designed for, and terrain I am riding in, simply it's just not the right daily driver, despite how enjoyable it is in many aspects of riding? It needs a softer more playful board?
PS, some weird feelings that don't align with user reviews and experienced snowboarders' talks that often gets me wonder and confused about, would love to hear it if anyone could shed some light on. 馃槉
Many are saying, boards like Custom X, you have to ride more aggressively, charge hard. Although it gives back much more, but it doesn't cut you slack, and it's more physically demanding and tiring at the end of the day.

But what I find is on the contrary, more aggressive boards to me is easier to ride. It's actually less tiring (well, not talking about dodging crowd on green/blue runs, just general riding, when you can and are actually riding...). I find you can just set it, trust it and let it go, which feels more together with myself, rather than an added equipment you have to constantly check on. With less effort to constantly check on it, tweak it, at the end of the day, I find it's less tiring and overall easier and more enjoyable. And of course, better performance in the areas of my interest, stability in varied terrains and speed, carving, turns, more turns, a lot more turns, a lot and lot more turns... 馃き
This is exactly the reason why being a timid rider whom doesn't do speed and can hardly be said to be aggressive in riding, out of many's surprise, I constantly upgrade and looking into what's so called more aggressive boards. When I get the boards I've got, or almost every time when people saw me riding them, I've been asked you must be an aggressive rider, I was like, nah, not at all, actually quite the contrary, but I find it does the job for me.
Am I doing something wrong here? Have I got some theories and skills seriously off track? Why is it so different to me?
 

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Sounds like you need a board that can do anything, like the Ride Warpig.

I presume you ride Ruapehu? You need to dodge masses of people and deal with chopped up runs of chunder turning into slush. I prefer a stiff board to deal with the snow conditions and I have no interest in having a versatile playful board.

Also, you're totally overthinking it :D
 

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Discussion Starter #4
@Manicmouse lol, you're sharp on point. Yes, Ruapehu, Turoa mainly, and yes, I've noticed and fully aware too, I am overthinking it. 馃槄 I guess it's a common trait for those less physical, and not really into exercise (yeah, I am a bit of conflicting soul 馃檮, I don't like exercise not into sports majority of times either only enjoying hiking and snowboarding, not sure why..., but I guess when you love it, you don't really ask for a reason), I turn to think and analize a lot, so I can review my current take and plan the next move with efficiency and compensate what I lack (great physical fitness and agility).

Although I learnt a lot through snowboarding that sometimes thinking doesn't help, you just have to do it and feel it. But right combination of both work wonders.

And re war pig... don't tempt me any more...馃槦 If money and space is not an issue, I actually really want to grab some of the boards: War Pig being one, also super pig & women's version psycho candy. But got more on the top of the list, eg. Yes hel yes, Jones Flagship women's, Jones twin sister. What I am trying now is, try to utilize what I have instead buy more. So unless absolutely sure I can't make Custom X my next and better daily driver, else won't be buying new.

@f00bar 馃槀 exactly where I started (hence Rossi XV the green one, it's a sick looking board and got all the right character I like as well)! until I realized life is not perfect, you can't have something that got the looks yet does the job 100%+. Actually getting something does the job 90% is hard enough.
 

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Have a look on the Korua Pencil 147 womens. If the flex ratings are consistent between their sizes, it should be like 6,5/10 for you imo.
 

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It sounds like you want an easier handling camber board which means a lot softer than the Custom X and probably softer than the Custom as well. A few years ago I was looking for the same thing, I'm not a powerful rider and after years of taming a stiff camber board I took a punt on the Rome Blur. I couldn't be happier with it for all round carving on variable pistes and especially in icy conditions, much more nimble than my previous board (even though specs aren't that different) but still rock solid at speed.
The Blur has been discontinued and replaced by the Speed Freak for 21 which looks like the nose will be a little better in soft snow, not sure what the ladies equivalent is.
 

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What should I know more about this board, how it wants to be treated to tackle the areas now lacking?
So this is my take on this and don't take this as an absolute truth. As a reference I'm a 100kg heavy man, but the physics is the same for all riders. I'm also just an intermediate snowboarder since I switched from skis rather recently.

The sidecut on the board helps the board flex into the turning radius. If you take your board and put in a flat surface you will see that when you bend it to get the entire edge to have contact it will flex into an arc. This is what the sidecut does. A stiffer board will be much harder to bend and a smaller sidecut radius will make it even harder to flex that board into it's proper radius. Then, in a high speed turn or if you're a heavier rider, the board will flex even more due to the applied force, and thus making the turning radius even sharper.

So a stiff board will be mush harder to turn at lower speeds because you won't have enough force to get it to bend properly.

If it's also torsionally stiff you will have problems bending it that way too. When you "peddle" a board by flexing your feet the opposite direction you twist the board and thus apply friction in different parts of the sidecut, and the board starts to initiate a turn. This is how we steer on flats. or sometimes initiate turns. Especially at lower speeds.

Maybe the Custom X is a bit stiff for your preferred riding style even if you enjoy the stability at higher speeds.
 

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You need @neni ; for advice on the women鈥檚 board/sizing.

I have a bunch of camber decks that love speed. Once you feel that full camber lock-in-rail-on-ice you never go back. The problem is the X is stiff and NEEDS to go fast to unleash its potential. It needs more force applied to it to unlock the camber. At slow speeds it won鈥檛 be fun at all. Keep it in the quiver for those empty resort days and find a softer flex partner.

The flagship is another very desirable deck. Do you have men or women version? maybe a bit oversized? I downsized my XV to 159 when I bought one a few years back (70kg). It鈥檚 much more playful (if the XV can be considered playful). Maybe you can trade for smaller?
 

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It's probably not the right board for what you want right now, based on your own experiences. It sounds like you need a softer board.

But if you ride the Custom X a lot and break it in, it will likely become the right board because you will increase your comfort with it at the same time that it breaks in to meet you in the middle.

If you're not going to put 50 days on it though that's probably not going to happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
@Yeahti87 @BoardieK although trying to keep my hands off new purchases, but... often good to know more goodies out there. Will add these onto my list of research, on one side, I do hope they open new doors, on the other hopefully they won't jump into my wish list as it's already long, and wallet thin... 馃槹
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
@Snowdaddy 馃槴 damn, you spoke my mind, but not my dream... I was worried I might just love the board too much to start trying to convince myself against law of physics - stiff aggressive camber boards are not meant to be ridden slow, that's end of the story. So despite how great it feels riding it, it's just not going to do the job in moguls and narrow steeps, that's just how they're built, not something that can be easily overcame or compensated by skills and tactics to handle it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
@Scalpelman 馃槃 yes! neni has helped me a great deal through the time. She and some wonderful forumers successfully talked me out of the insane idea of getting the 163cm Rossi XV. lol~~~ And she helped me to learn how to handle stiffer boards when I changed from my 143 noodle to the 152 7/10 flex camber dominant hybrid. Ever since that there is no looking back... it actually changed my riding style and areas of interest, also understanding of snowboarding. Strange that I find stiffer more camber boards are easier to ride than shorter softer boards. They're just more trust worthy, being a timid rider, I feel safe when riding them. They just give so much more, stability, edge hold, speed, and now pop (air) from Custom X.

Flagship is certainly appealing, hence why I got it, unfortunately it's men's 158, certainly not the right size for me (only that was available and under tempting deal, women's was and still is about double the price 馃槰). Trade in is a mission impossible in NZ. 2nd hand market is tired and lifeless. If you've got a goodie, unless you absolutely don't want it, else you keep it. There is no hope to sell it for a decent price, and I've always been looking without seeing any appealing boards available. But it's OK, I just have to watch out for the right condition to bring it out. It's a super nice ride, just not all mountain daily driver.
Really keen on the new women's version though 2020 I believe, hearing they dialed down torsional stiffness this year, made it more nimble (neni rides flagship and recommended it to me, it's good for open big mountains, steep and icy is fine, but she also mentioned it's just not a nimble board, regardless if it's men's or women's, when I was so tempted maybe I should get women's after I experienced how wonderful it felt riding men's despite the size is wrong). But I need that nimbleness for moguls and narrow steeps, so shifted my eyes on either replace my current Rossi Diva when needed, or get Yes Hel Yes. Now, with change in Flagship, again looking at it... But with custom X and the great experience riding it over the weekend, hoping if X works, then I don't need to get any of them, as decent women's boards are just hardly hardly ever on sale in NZ.

So a question since you've got so many camber boards. How do you guys manage moguls and narrow steeps on them? Is there a way? Or stiff aggressive cambers are just not designed for it. You'd reach another board for such terrain? Dodging crowd on busy green and blues is fine, it wasn't even riding. I am happy if I have to hold my holly board walk across them if it comes to that point. But I can't compromise moguls and narrow steeps, as else, I can't take it all mountain any and everywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
@drblast that sounds like a valid point! As a weekend worrier... it probably will take me 5 years minimum to reach that 50 days mark to break it in... but at least there is a hope, and it is very enjoyable riding it. I guess I'll just have to keep on riding it as much as I could. Pity I can't take it out to long trips (as for that I only bring 1 board which has to be daily driver all terrain suited).

Sorry to ask the same question as I asked above to someone else, but wouldn't expect you to read long threads, and I really want to increase the opportunity to get some answers and tips... so here we go:
How do you guys manage moguls and narrow steeps on stiff aggressive camber boards? Is there a way? Or they are just not designed for it, you'd rather reach for another board in that situation?
 

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How do you guys manage moguls and narrow steeps on stiff aggressive camber boards? Is there a way? Or they are just not designed for it, you'd rather reach for another board in that situation?
There's nothing wrong with a camber board I would say. In moguls if you run nose first into a mogul you don't want the nose to be horribly stiff so it bucks you yet stiff enough to not fold so it can plow through chopped up snow.

What kind of narrow steeps are you talking about and how fast are you riding them?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
@Manicmouse 馃ぃ damn, I think I am overthinking it again. Are you trying to say, keep trying until proven yes/wrong? But then it looks sad towards the end... 馃槄 at the end, you might find the effort wasted and pointless that you miss out on real important things? 馃檮 I am definitely overthinking it aye...?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
There's nothing wrong with a camber board I would say. In moguls if you run nose first into a mogul you don't want the nose to be horribly stiff so it bucks you yet stiff enough to not fold so it can plow through chopped up snow.

What kind of narrow steeps are you talking about and how fast are you riding them?
moguls like Norquay, not sure if you're from Canada Banff, but if you're familiar with it, the one that's right off the 2 people chair that one can see right from the bottom of the chair. Hell lot of fun, but definitely a nimble board preferred there. NZ is a bit different, we don't have deep moguls like that, firmer, icier, but not that deep and regular pattern. More random and just natural I suppose.

narrow steeps is a comparable term probably nothing to you guys for what's to me. NZ is different to Canada, I find Canadian mountains are much steeper, their blues often feel same or maybe steeper than our blacks. Yet snow condition made it so much easier. Riding our blues can sometimes feel harder than riding double blacks in Canada (or maybe I was just lucky snow condition was good enough, not much ice when I visited Banff). So maybe not that steep to you guys, but it's often icy, bumpy and rocky, means it's best if you don't charge, especially if you're not that good and confident and you value your life. It's not fun tumbling down rocks and hard ice. That's also what makes it narrow. Although you may have a wide terrain in front of you, but usable space is marginal, and often you have to be close, sometimes real close to feel to be able to make a reasonable judgement of snow condition, unless, some unlucky guy is in front showing all they can and paying with all they have to teach you a few lessons via observation... so I often ride very very slow... sometimes hopping to my edges rather than turning to make it quick and eliminate speed building up. But majority of the times I do use quick pivoted turns coming to full stop in between of a few turns. And to do that I sink low, quickly shift my weight to the front foot, peddle, change edge. Speed hardly build up for me that way, and I feel safe and in control. But with a stiff board as X, I don't or yet see it's possible since that peddling motion (torsional twist) is greatly limited... It can be a scary thought to see it pointing down rather than turning when I shift weight to front foot...
 

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So maybe not that steep to you guys, but it's often icy, bumpy and rocky, means it's best if you don't charge, especially if you're not that good and confident and you value your life.
Personally, I'm just an intermediate rider even if I do get around the mountain. I ride in Sweden and most resorts are kind of mellow unless you get a split board or just hike.

Good is I need speed, that doesn't come naturally from my character. Being a timid and cautious rider whom enjoys view and cruising around mountain get to places wherever I want to with ease, I am not into big crazy aggressive stuff at all, I prefer and naturally go slow. To me what I enjoy most about snowboarding is the freedom and sense relaxation, yes, instead of adrenaline rush and physical demands, I find it relaxing and mind soothing... (probably a little weird I know, but hey, people are different馃槑). So speed, is always something I am lacking yet needing, many things can't be achieved without speed, and to get me out the long flats and trapped down the valley, I need speed. One and only time I've managed to increase speed in a controlled and comfortable way is, changing board (from 143 noodle to 152 7/10 flex charger). And it seems to been proven useful continuing to now, Custom X is naturally faster, no extra effort from me needed other than trust it.
In general I would say: Ride what you think is fun...

If you want to ride a men's Custom X and you can handle it, why the hell not. On the other hand you might really enjoy something more accessible. So basically you are saying that the Custom X is too hard to ride in the steeps and not very nice in the easy runs. That sort of looks like a niche carving board to me (nothing wrong with that to be clear).

This just my very personal opinion. A stiffer more aggressive board might help you when you go fast on nice groomers and you want to have the confidence to lay down carves in high speed. In most other situations having a more accessible and easy to ride board is helpful when going places. Of course I'm not talking about taking a park noodle to a steep chute.

It probably couldn't hurt to try another board if you can afford to buy one. Otherwise maybe you could try to demo a board. Ride those high speed carves on something else than the Custom X. Salomon PillowTalk gets great reviews. A powder board with freestyle flair. I have the men's version in two different lengths. There are nice Nideckers that come pretty cheap. I own the Tracer which is crazy fun and while it's mostly a carving board it has an all mountain/freeride shape and works most places. I'm not sure if the smallest mens boards could be something from Nidecker, but you have the Odyssey freeride board for women. Everybody loves Nideckers ;)

There's another Swedish guy here that has a girlfriend that rides the Nitro Drop and swears by it. I think they even bought two of them just in case.

Maybe you could talk to a shop about trying some boards if there aren't any demo event you can go to. I highly recommend getting to a demo if you can manage it.

You can still keep the Custom X for charging morning groomers or when you just feel like going crazy fast.
 

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@Snowdaddy 馃槴 damn, you spoke my mind, but not my dream... I was worried I might just love the board too much to start trying to convince myself against law of physics - stiff aggressive camber boards are not meant to be ridden slow, that's end of the story. So despite how great it feels riding it, it's just not going to do the job in moguls and narrow steeps, that's just how they're built, not something that can be easily overcame or compensated by skills and tactics to handle it.
So... after my first season as a snowboarder I came to the conclusion I needed a new board. Something stiffer and more importantly, it needed more nose for the pow.

I come from a skier background so the mountains never really felt that steep to me even as a beginner snowboarder. I hurt myself a lot the first week but after that first trip I felt pretty confident about going around the mountain. Sliding turns down blacks in a controlled manner wasn't an issue even if I still don't see much point in snowboarding them.

I looked around for boards, mainly powder boards. Asked around on this forum. Eventually I stumbled onto the Korua films... and thought: "wow... that's exactly how I want to ride"

I decided on the Pencil, a very attractive powder shape that looks a bit like a rocket ship. Shot an email to Korua and asked about it and the difference between that and the carbon plus model. "Wisely" decided on the more expensive carbon model so I wouldn't have to upgrade later. It didn't really bother me that I had around two weeks of snowboarding experience.

My first turns in the new board was amazing. I had perfect manchester groomers and pockets of fluffy pow. I couldn't be happier. Except that going on a trip and riding it for an entire week was absolutely murder. By the end of the week my knees felt like someone was stabbing knives into them. The board took me places I'd never had gone without it and I don't regret buying it. It really progressed my riding that second season and I still have it and rides it more than my other boards. I did realize it couldn't be my only board. I needed something more accessible that I could just cruise and have fun being more relaxed. Something that was fun even at slower speeds or in worse snow conditions. The journey in finding my quiver of boards had begun.

The point to this monologue is that you shouldn't feel sorry for having your Custom X, but don't let the fixation of it bog you down. I love my Pencil Plus and it's the first thing I think about when I see snow, but expanding my horizon into more accessible boards has been a good thing. It sound like you have been riding a lot longer than I have and maybe you have the perseverance to master that board in every condition and still have fun on it. I would still vote for your idea of buying a workhorse and keep the X for the race tracks.
 

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Moguls are tough. Problem with full camber is the locked in effect. That鈥檚 why I reserve my long full camber decks for high speed carving on the VT ice pack. When things get a bit more fun with fresh snow I opt for something shorter or better yet, hybrid camber. Love the RCR profile. I can take my downsized XV anywhere. Also excited to try my new S camber this year.
 
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