[Extazy]

Hello peeps.

Will try to make this short. My GF and Friends made me a surprise birthday party (I don't like birthdays) and gave me some backcountry related presents. The biggest one is from GF, it's an avalanche airbag backpack.

We are going to mount baker this January and I already googled if I could sign up for backcountry classes but unfortunately, dates are a little off. So no classes for now.

In the middle of the process, I was a bit confused about how many classes there are, and how diverse backcountry in general (Heli skiing, cat tracks, hiking (that requires split boards)). The thing is I am more focused on my career for now and work, so I am on the budget. My GF knows how much I love snowboarding and wants me to start riding backcountry and introduce her and her friends eventually.

Could you please navigate me and let me know what classes and courses I need to take to be aka "safe and prepared" for backcountry? From what I understand AIARE 1 and AIARE 2 are must have but what about others? I can't afford splitboards for at least 2 years, so, for now, all I can is snowshoeing and leaving resort boundaries.

Also, it seems mount baker has a really good infrastructure when it comes to learning backcountry, here on east coasts we don't have it this developed. Is there another mountain someone can recommend we can plan a trip and corporate backcountry learning with? I heard Tahoe has a good infrastructure as well.

Thank you!

 

[deagol]

People will probably disagree with me, but getting into backcountry is a HUGE time and money investment. Even after years I am still learning. I just read several avalanche reports (including with fatalities) about an area I was in for the first time on Sunday and it sucks.

I just don't see it as practical unless you are living in the right place and are already bored with ski areas. You are really taking a lot more risk and it's easy to get into terrain that you can 'ride' but it is a lot more dangerous than you think due to avy danger.

I would start with this..

 

[chomps1211]

If neither chimes in soon,.. you might think about pm'ing @killclimbz and/or @wrathfuldeity.

Both have bc experience (...killz has a tonne!) and wrath is a veritable fount of knowledge regarding Mt. Baker.

Iir from my brief vist,... there are several places @ Baker where from the top of a lift, one can hike a (...reasonably) short(ish) distance and do some serious bc riding.

Not only that, but if Im not mistaken, on some of them it's possible to ride them out and navigate back to lifts again at the bottom. (...wrath would kno for sure about that last bit.) :shrug:

However, this is still true bc. Not patroled, cliffs, avalanche prone etc. So Not to be taken lightly despite some ease of access.

(...they've also got some "inbounds" riding that is gnarly as f#%*!!! )

:hairy:

 

[Snowdaddy]

The biggest one is from GF, it's an avalanche airbag backpack.

Backcountry touring, tele, skiing and snowboarding is a lot of fun, just bear in mind that there are so much that can go wrong besides avalanches. Everything from hitting rocks, trees, steep drops to hidden glacier crevasses. People without knowledge about winter survival easily die from exposure if the get lost. Even experienced mountaineers mess up.

People will probably disagree with me, but getting into backcountry is a HUGE time and money investment. Even after years I am still learning.

Quoted for truth. The backcountry is also something very special.

 

[killclimbz]

Man, the avalanche airbag is a nice piece of gear, but it is in no way a mandatory piece of gear. You need a beacon, shovel, probe, and a method (backpack) to carry that gear with you. This is mandatory gear. End of story. If you don't have it, don't go into the backcountry. If you get caught in an avalanche, you are likely dead. If someone else gets caught, and you are in the vicinity, you are worthless unless you have this gear to assist.
Baker has a ton of "slackcountry" which is resort accessed backcountry. It is not controlled for avalanches, and the terrain around there is serious avy terrain. Shuksan Arm is gnarly.
My advice would be to make sure you have the big three pieces of gear. The airbag is a nice extra, I ride with one, so don't think that I am saying the utility of it isn't there. If I have to leave a piece behind, that is the one. Just like my hut trip last week, I left the airbag behind.
Check out Know Before You Go. This is a good introductory site that goes over basic avalanche awareness. There are also free presentations that run through this. They are quite good. If you decide this is something you really want to get into, take an AAIRE level 1 course. After taking the L1 you will have been taught enough to make decisions in the backcountry. The L2 is more about advanced decision making and traveling in complicated terrain. It is not necessary to start with. Most avalanche instructors want you to take a L1 and then spend some time out there getting experience.
It doesn't matter what style you get into. Riding backcountry accessed from the resorts, splitboarding, snowmobiling, heli riding. You are exposed in one way or another. How you approach it differs based on what you are doing. The one thing for sure, an avalanche doesn't care if you are a n00b or the most renowned expert. It is an equal opportunist and will kill you if you give it a chance. I've lost too many friends already to them. Most people who have been around in this game have. It's a sad truth.
Take it seriously, do it right, and you might find yourself doing some of the most rewarding things ever. I love it, but it does come with it's dark side. Learning how to travel in avalanche terrain is key.

 

[neni]

Classes are one thing, but a lot comes down to experience and repetition. No class can ever cover all situations and variables. I do an repetition class every year, and learn new things every year.

To start, I'd join your local mountaineering club, if it exists at yours, to join experienced bc tourers, learn where the easy tours in your region are, learn from older ppl who have toured the region for decades, or do guided tours and suck up knowledge there.

 

[Extazy]

Guys thank for the input.

To make things clearer I do not see backpack as 50% backcountry success. Trust me it's just a motivation (my GF will keep bothering me about it) to do something that I wanted to do for a while now.

I used to ride at least 30-40 days on east coast, but now I barely go out. I am bored of Ice coast. But I am also picky when it comes to conditions in general. For example I rode in Wyoming last year, and it was only 1 day at Jackson Hole. Most of it was Grand Targhee due to snow conditions.

When it comes to gear rest of my friends presents were beacon, probe, showed and socks. So I basicaly got everything except split board and skins.

I made a call to avalanche school at mnt baker and they told me that I can do AAIRE level 1 course even at east coast cause mostly it's just theoretical stuff with little to do outside. They also offer guide tours for around $500, and told me that should be a good starting point.

I would do it but even with my GF it will be $270 from both of us which is a bit much. I guess I should just read books for now and make money for the next year)

 

[wrathfuldeity]

Disclaimer...I'm still a bc noob with L1 and with bc gear...but still a knoob. Unfortunately have riding skills and confidence to ride more gnarls than I would not ever want to get caught in.... So when you are out; if the weather and snow conditions are good, bring what you have (we can get the rest of the gear) and I will take you out on some very mellow/low risk areas to pop yer cherry. But first, we'll drop a couple of inbound burlys to see if yer sphincter is nice and relaxed.

Baker's slack is sooo wickedly seductive...the main issue is not getting out there...its getting back. But the reality is damm terrifying...scroll through these links

https://gallery.mtbaker.us/Archive/20102011-Season/Grant-Gunderson/

https://gallery.mtbaker.us/Archive/20122013-Season/Grant-Gunderson/

 

[Extazy]

Classes are one thing, but a lot comes down to experience and repetition. No class can ever cover all situations and variables. I do an repetition class every year, and learn new things every year.

To start, I'd join your local mountaineering club, if it exists at yours, to join experienced bc tourers, learn where the easy tours in your region are, learn from older ppl who have toured the region for decades, or do guided tours and suck up knowledge there.

I was researching about it. Mostly people do backcountry near Jay Peak in north Vermont. But from what I gathered some tour guides disregard avalanche safety, because chances are so small for them to happen that they don't even take any gear. I can start doing it with them, but it's still quite a commitment (8 hour drive).

 

[deagol]

….they told me that I can do AAIRE level 1 course even at east coast cause mostly it's just theoretical stuff with little to do outside.

This probably depends on the school itself but when I did mine, we were probably 75% outside.

 

[Extazy]

This probably depends on the school itself but when I did mine, we were probably 75% outside.

I was also surprised since most of the photos I found (on their website and on this forum) were outside, but maybe guy on the phone was trying to get in my situation and offered least expensive alternative.

 

[deagol]

I've never ridden back east, but it might be something specific to your region.

There is one important thing about backcountry that has not been brought up yet: a good partner (or partners) is the most important part of the backcountry safety equation. These are the people who are going to dig you out if you are unlucky enough to be buried.

There is a saying I have heard as it relates to this question: don't be a beginner led by beginners ... and don't be a beginner leading other beginners.

 

[Extazy]

I would start with this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Pye9f602s

Man this video is so sad. And I can totally relate. Hurt my shoulder couple seasons ago, due to being stocked and attempting bigger jump.

 

[Snowdaddy]

Have any of you gotten any winter survival training or is it just avalanche training?

 

[Rip154]

Start small, as long as there's snow and a hill, you get some clues about it. A big part about backcountry is actually being able to get out there, and you learn the basics pretty quick while doing that. Walk up, then ride down, and you have all the terrain in the world for free. Follow your gut, it's usually way too careful, but will allow you to do more when you learn. Make sure you have a serious discussion with it each time, so you don't miss out

Check the snowpack, listen to sounds from the snowpack, see how it varies on different faces. Learn where to walk up, think about how to apply the least pressure when you walk in a group, where to ride to avoid traps in avalance terrain. You can read and watch videos about most of it, but you'll never learn until you try it.

An avalanche course is the basic of course, but won't help if you travel alone, or make the wrong choices. Joining a backcountry workshop is a good way to learn. Usually starts with some theory, an avalanche course, and you get to join some trips of varying difficulty with a guide. Ask the guide about stuff, they want to talk about it. A course for just the theory by itself is a waste though, you can read that.

It can be useful to learn to walk and ride with the gear you need for a full trip, even if it's just a small hike around a local area. Having gear that works and you feel comfy with is a big deal. You will soon realise what you need and don't need, and how you can adjust. Gear is nothing without experience.

 

[Extazy]

Have any of you gotten any winter survival training or is it just avalanche training?

So far I have nothing)

 

[Kenai]

There are also avy classes on Mt. Washington out of North Conway, NH. Probably not any closer than the Jay area, though.

There’s a lot of great info on Canada’s avalanche website as well. Start in the “learn” section. https://www.avalanche.ca

Here’s another sobering video. https://www.avalanche.ca/cherry-bowl/#/intro

 

[killclimbz]

Have any of you gotten any winter survival training or is it just avalanche training?

Good question. Survival training? No. I've learned enough over the years. How to dig a snow cave, bring extra warm layers, that sort of thing. 99% of the situations revolve around injuries or poor timing.

I have taken CPR, wilderness first aid, and did basic life support for my CPR recert last year. That is your biggest issue. If you have a partner, or get caught yourself in an avalanche, there is a good chance you are going to sustain significant injuries. Not too mention, people can just sustain an injury by being out there. Someone can do a knee, sustain a head injury. There is no ski patrol to help you out. You'll have to get out on your own, or get an assist from Search and Rescue. Either way, whatever you can do to stabilize and help bring that person to the next level of care is a benefit to the injured party.

Poor timing usually involved being out after night fall. Head lamps, extra warm layers, knowing where you are, and patience are the biggest things to help in that situation. Just plug along to your destination and take your time, don't panic. It sucks, but those epics are always fun to talk about after the fact at least.

 

[wrathfuldeity]

Good question. Survival training? No. I've learned enough over the years. How to dig a snow cave, bring extra warm layers, that sort of thing. 99% of the situations revolve around injuries or poor timing.

I have taken CPR, wilderness first aid, and did basic life support for my CPR recert last year. That is your biggest issue. If you have a partner, or get caught yourself in an avalanche, there is a good chance you are going to sustain significant injuries. Not too mention, people can just sustain an injury by being out there. Someone can do a knee, sustain a head injury. There is no ski patrol to help you out. You'll have to get out on your own, or get an assist from Search and Rescue. Either way, whatever you can do to stabilize and help bring that person to the next level of care is a benefit to the injured party.

Poor timing usually involved being out after night fall. Head lamps, extra warm layers, knowing where you are, and patience are the biggest things to help in that situation. Just plug along to your destination and take your time, don't panic. It sucks, but those epics are always fun to talk about after the fact at least.

Yes, avys are one thing...but a relatively minor inbounds injury or equip malfunction can quickly turn in a a epic event in the BC. Years ago, a day or 2 after killz and crew popped my cherry, one of the crew...iirc blew out a knee and lost a ski...was 2-3 mile trudge out in the dark?.

 

[Kenai]

I had to search to find one more video. This was the best thing shown during my avy class. It really highlights a number of the challenges and pitfalls in backcountry decision making.

https://youtu.be/nIPk_Ap7svM

Of course, none of this heavy shit means don’t hit the backcountry. It just means learn as much as you can and go slow.



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