[Snowdaddy]

When I think about the backcountry it's somewhere you don't go without supplies and survival equipment. Anywhere you ride without that is just off piste. The thing is that I think people, myself probably included, are a lot more careless when it's "just" off piste.

Personally I try to always ride with a partner or within reach of a piste or such, and I avoid going where I can't clearly see the terrain ahead.

I do have equipment to go into proper backcountry (though not a splitboard) but it's just such an undertaking I don't do it because of the time it takes. I've been thinking about it, but I will probably just ride from the resorts.

 

[Kenai]

When I think about the backcountry it's somewhere you don't go without supplies and survival equipment. Anywhere you ride without that is just off piste. The thing is that I think people, myself probably included, are a lot more careless when it's "just" off piste.



Personally I try to always ride with a partner or within reach of a piste or such, and I avoid going where I can't clearly see the terrain ahead.



I do have equipment to go into proper backcountry (though not a splitboard) but it's just such an undertaking I don't do it because of the time it takes. I've been thinking about it, but I will probably just ride from the resorts.

What do you mean supplies and survival equipment? It sounds to me like you are thinking of winter camping/mountaineering or some type of expedition into the wilderness as backcountry and everything else is just “off piste.” I think that’s a mistake.

The stuff that is accessible as a day trip but where no one is going to take a stove and sleeping bag and stuff (matches, first aid kit, space blanket sure) is still backcountry. If you get off at the top of a pass and ride to the bottom with a car shuttle, THAT IS BACKCOUNTRY!



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[killclimbz]

Yes, avys are one thing...but a relatively minor inbounds injury or equip malfunction can quickly turn in a a epic event in the BC. Years ago, a day or 2 after killz and crew popped my cherry, one of the crew...iirc blew out a knee and lost a ski...was 2-3 mile trudge out in the dark?.

Yeah, that sucked, but we got out.

 

[Snowdaddy]

What do you mean supplies and survival equipment? It sounds to me like you are thinking of winter camping/mountaineering or some type of expedition into the wilderness as backcountry and everything else is just “off piste.” I think that’s a mistake.

The stuff that is accessible as a day trip but where no one is going to take a stove and sleeping bag and stuff (matches, first aid kit, space blanket sure) is still backcountry. If you get off at the top of a pass and ride to the bottom with a car shuttle, THAT IS BACKCOUNTRY!



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I think my point was that people get careless just because it's accessible.

 

[chomps1211]

I was researching about it. Mostly people do backcountry near Jay Peak in north Vermont. But from what I gathered some tour guides disregard avalanche safety, because chances are so small for them to happen that they don't even take any gear. I can start doing it with them, but it's still quite a commitment (8 hour drive).

That would REALLY concern me. It doesn't matter to me how "small" the chances are. What matters to me is are the so called "experts" making sure that every precaution is taken if lightning should strike.

This is from a year or two back at one of our little molehill resorts here in MI. It's off the backside of the run in a roped off area,... ( which frequently gets "ducked!")

You never know. Even in the most unlikely places. :shrug:


The saying I remember most distinctly is,... if it's steep enough to ride, it's steep enough to slide!!

 

[Snowdaddy]

What do you mean supplies and survival equipment? It sounds to me like you are thinking of winter camping/mountaineering or some type of expedition into the wilderness as backcountry and everything else is just “off piste.” I think that’s a mistake.

And yes, I do think that. And I think that's a mistake

 

[deagol]

"......Don’t try and outsmart the avy forecast with snow pits or science. A considerable rating pretty much takes me out of avalanche terrain...."

https://www.jonessnowboards.com/en-US/base-camp/blog/jeremy-jones-pre-game-avalanche-protocols.html

 

[Snowdaddy]

https://www.jonessnowboards.com/en-US/base-camp/blog/jeremy-jones-pre-game-avalanche-protocols.html

Sensible protocols I say

 

[neni]

Have any of you gotten any winter survival training or is it just avalanche training?

What do you mean by winter survival training? In my neck of woods, a bc day looks like this: pack gear, skin up a mtn, ride it down, go home. Or if it's a multiday trip: pack gear, skin up, ride to an alpine hut, sleep, rinse repeat.

It's very unlikely to get lost for several days as we have a dense alpine hut system. Thus, I never had anything which I'd call winter survival training - which sounds like staying alive somewhere remote for days. If we'd get cought by bad weather and wouldn't be able to navigate to the next hut (which we avoid by studying forcasts, and having maps n compas and plan B), I'd know to dig a snow cave to get off the wind and always carry an emergency bivvy bag and thermal blankets to survive a night out, but that's it.
If someone gets hurt, we have the basic emergency medi-kit, know to do a splint or sledge to evacuate someone mildly hurt, but if it's bad, we have heli rescue. If someone would be badly hurt AND it's bad down-day heli weather AND get lost n couldn't reach the next hut? Yup, we would be screwed. But then qlso things would have gone wrong before tgat, like making bad decisions beforehand. That's why weather and a plan B is a prime decision factor to us.

 

[Snowdaddy]

What do you mean by winter survival training? In my neck of woods, a bc day looks like this: pack gear, skin up a mtn, ride it down, go home. Or if it's a multiday trip: pack gear, skin up, ride to an alpine hut, sleep, rinse repeat.

It's very unlikely to get lost for several days as we have a dense alpine hut system. Thus, I never had anything which I'd call winter survival training - which sounds like staying alive somewhere remote for days. If we'd get cought by bad weather and wouldn't be able to navigate to the next hut (which we avoid by studying forcasts, and having maps n compas and plan B), I'd know to dig a snow cave to get off the wind and always carry an emergency bivvy bag and thermal blankets to survive a night out, but that's it.
If someone gets hurt, we have the basic emergency medi-kit, know to do a splint or sledge to evacuate someone mildly hurt, but if it's bad, we have heli rescue. If someone would be badly hurt AND it's bad down-day heli weather AND get lost n couldn't reach the next hut? Yup, we would be screwed. But then qlso things would have gone wrong before tgat, like making bad decisions beforehand. That's why weather and a plan B is a prime decision factor to us.

Just being curious. And if you can stay alive for one day you could likely stay alive for more

 

[neni]

Just being curious. And if you can stay alive for one day you could likely stay alive for more

Food and hot tea and heat would run out after that night. In this hypothetical situation there would be a blizzard, or else I wouldn't be in the situation. So... IF that blizzard would continue, I'd be dead the next night, because I haven't packed for an expedition, but for a bc day trip. And I can sccept that risk, cos it's very low, cos I'd never get on a bc trip if chances for a blizzard are there.

 

[deagol]

to add to what neni says, it can be hard to carry everything you want to or that you should carry. My pack is only so large and it already feels quite heavy. Speed is safety in the mountains and being able to travel fast and light without getting exhausted is important. I think we all take risks and the backcountry is no exception. I don't have the gear to survive overnight unless I could manage in a snowcave (which I have done once many years ago but with a proper sleeping bag and ground pad and stove).

 

[Kenai]

When I think about the backcountry it's somewhere you don't go without supplies and survival equipment. Anywhere you ride without that is just off piste. The thing is that I think people, myself probably included, are a lot more careless when it's "just" off piste.



Personally I try to always ride with a partner or within reach of a piste or such, and I avoid going where I can't clearly see the terrain ahead.



I do have equipment to go into proper backcountry (though not a splitboard) but it's just such an undertaking I don't do it because of the time it takes. I've been thinking about it, but I will probably just ride from the resorts.

I realize in many ways we are just arguing about semantics. The reality is we take risks. The key is to understand the risks so you can accurately evaluate whether you are comfortable with that level of risk.

Most of us are not going to carry much “survival” gear on a short backcountry trip. That doesn’t mean we are unprepared. I think that is what struck me about your post - it read to me that you were equating backcountry with a place you need survival gear and “careless” with lack of survival gear and I don’t agree with either of those statements.



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[neni]

I realize in many ways we are just arguing about semantics. The reality is we take risks. The key is to understand the risks so you can accurately evaluate whether you are comfortable with that level of risk.

to add to what neni says, it can be hard to carry everything you want to or that you should carry. My pack is only so large and it already feels quite heavy. Speed is safety in the mountains and being able to travel fast and light without getting exhausted is important.

This.

BC is all about risk management, and the gear you pack is part of it. The more you pack, for the more situations you are prepared, sure, BUT the heavier the pack, the slower you get, which in turns increases your risk. It's give and take.

Thus it depends on what type of BC venture is on the table that day. Like, if I would pack for a multiday traverse in a rural place with no cell coverage and rescue? Sure, my pack would be totally different. But so would be the plan for which route and how far. (Since I endure cold badly, this is out of my scope anyway. I only do multiday hut to hut trips. I.e. only basic survival stuff needed to increase my personal risk feel as I reach a warm hut in the evening). Different bc trips require different gear and allow for different travel speed and routing.

OTOH, there's an absolute minimum which I take to venture BC. Beacon, probe, shovel is absolutely mandatory to me even if it's only lift accessible resort peaks towering above lifts n groomers (which at ours is bc cos it's not bombed nor patrolled). Just today, it was incredibly tempting, as someone did one of those peaks and it looked as if there is real nice pow, and it means this someone has cut the necessary steps... would have been an easy 1hr bootpack from the top lift to access a great 800m run back down to resort. Avy risk down to mellow. Tempting. But we didn't have any gear, so it was a clear NO.

I know ppl who do that peak in such conditions without any gear, solo. And that's fine. That's their personal risk level. It's not mine. I always think that I don't want to end up as that gal in the statistics who would have an avy pack n allat home but got caught that one day she rode in resort mode with nothing.

Same goes for many other, slightly less risky "bc" off piste runs at ours. Countless ppl ride them without any gear. I don't. Because shit could happen. Has. Risk is low, but the remaining odds are too high for me. Not high enough to keep me from riding there, of course, but... IF shit happens, I want to be able to search my partner, do everything possible to find him and keep him alive. Sure, there'd be the risk he died from trauma anyway, or I wouldn't reach him quick enough, but those are the margins we take and live with. What I couldn't live with is standing there bare handed, not able to even try to rescue him because we went without any gear.

So... in short: bc <> bc and risk management is a personal thing.

 

[caboholic]

That would REALLY concern me. It doesn't matter to me how "small" the chances are. What matters to me is are the so called "experts" making sure that every precaution is taken if lightning should strike.

This is from a year or two back at one of our little molehill resorts here in MI. It's off the backside of the run in a roped off area,... ( which frequently gets "ducked!")

You never know. Even in the most unlikely places. :shrug:


The saying I remember most distinctly is,... if it's steep enough to ride, it's steep enough to slide!!

I'm impressed. I grew up in the midwest and can say that I've never heard of or seen an avalanche, or report of one, in my entire life from out there. Crazy.

 

[Snowdaddy]

When I think about the backcountry it's somewhere you don't go without supplies and survival equipment. Anywhere you ride without that is just off piste. The thing is that I think people, myself probably included, are a lot more careless when it's "just" off piste.

Personally I try to always ride with a partner or within reach of a piste or such, and I avoid going where I can't clearly see the terrain ahead.

I do have equipment to go into proper backcountry (though not a splitboard) but it's just such an undertaking I don't do it because of the time it takes. I've been thinking about it, but I will probably just ride from the resorts.

I realize in many ways we are just arguing about semantics. The reality is we take risks. The key is to understand the risks so you can accurately evaluate whether you are comfortable with that level of risk.

Most of us are not going to carry much “survival” gear on a short backcountry trip. That doesn’t mean we are unprepared. I think that is what struck me about your post - it read to me that you were equating backcountry with a place you need survival gear and “careless” with lack of survival gear and I don’t agree with either of those statements.



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I don't think I implied that you were careless. I said that people often don't see the dangers with off piste riding because they don't see skipping out of bounds as backcountry or something particularly dangerous.

Besides, the meaning of backcountry is an English term and I don't think we have a good translation in Swedish. Hence the "When I think".

 

[Kenai]

I don't think I implied that you were careless. I said that people often don't see the dangers with off piste riding because they don't see skipping out of bounds as backcountry or something particularly dangerous.



Besides, the meaning of backcountry is an English term and I don't think we have a good translation in Swedish. Hence the "When I think".

All fair, which is why I wrote “it read to me.” Here in the US we don’t use the term off-piste much at all. Nowadays people here will say “slack country” when they mean resort accessed backcountry.

My point was simply that there are levels of preparedness for different types of backcountry, but if it ain’t resort, it’s backcountry and should be considered as such.


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[Snowdaddy]

Back on the OP's topic I think it's a really good idea to seek out proper training. I could certainly need a brush up myself if I wanted to go into such terrain.

 

[Kenai]

Lucky kid. https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...that-buried-him-for-40-minutes-in-french-alps

Whoever writes about this for AP is an idiot, though. “Avalanche detector.” Man what I wouldn’t give for one of those.


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[deagol]

.... “Avalanche detector.” Man what I wouldn’t give for one of those.

Hmm, does the avalanche detector only work after an avalanche has occurred? If so, it won't be that useful.