Issue with my heel edge

1711 Views 27 Replies 9 Participants Last post by money4me247, 2 mo ago

Legendaryl

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago (Edited)

Hi everyone, I am facing an issue with my heel edge. I have no problem with my toe edge turning with pencil line trail. However, whenever I turn to my heel edge, I feel I am unable to maintain pencil line turns across the mountain. I, in the end sliding my turn according to ‘1’ in the image:

Gesture Font Art Electric blue Darkness

However, whenever I do ‘2’, it feels very weird and I have to actively close/turn my left shoulder (I’m regular) towards the right. But this feeling make me feel weird and throws my balance and “squat” off balance

Any advice would be much appreciated please🙏🏻

thank you in advance!!!

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money4me247

· #2 · 3 mo ago

The most common issue with heelside turns is keeping legs too straight & bending at waist instead of squatting down with knees/ankles. Here is a good coaching video on proper heelside technique.

If you can post a video of your riding, people can give more detailed feedback.

A variation of the drill mentioned above is practicing straight-lining to a fast heelside brake. You will need to keep your chest upright and bend your knees and ankles to absorb the pressure. If your body position isn't good, you will chatter out and fall. It is a good way to get realtime feedback on body position without a camera.

Video going over the drill here:

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money4me247

· #3 · 3 mo ago (Edited)

Legendaryl said:
Hi everyone, I am facing an issue with my heel edge. I have no problem with my toe edge turning with pencil line trail. However, whenever I turn to my heel edge, I feel I am unable to maintain pencil line turns across the mountain. I, in the end sliding my turn according to ‘1’ in the image:
View attachment 167408
However, whenever I do ‘2’, it feels very weird and I have to actively close/turn my left shoulder (I’m regular) towards the right. But this feeling make me feel weird and throws my balance and “squat” off balance

Any advice would be much appreciated please🙏🏻

thank you in advance!!!

It sounds like you are counter-rotating your body (upper body twisting in a different direction to your lower body).

For toeside to heelside transition for a regular rider, you should be opening your front shoulder to the left in the same direction of your turn (not twisting it to the opposite direction to the right - that is counter rotation and will throw off your balance).

You may be counter-rotated on your toeside edge as well. For toeside turns your shoulder should be turning to the right and you aren't able to look directly down the hill. Many people want to see directly downhill with on toeside so they end up counter rotating their body. Keep the correct body position with shoulder aligned and just look across the slope.

Try riding with your hands on your hips focusing on keeping your upper body inalign with your lower body.

Do your turns slower on mellower terrain! (counter rotation often happens when someone is riding too fast and trying to force a turn around quicker or scrub speed). To start do slow turns with with entire body align: first looking where you want to go, point your shoulder in that same direction, and hips and knees will follow. Always keep your shoulder inalign with your board. Once you are comfortable with keeping everything inalign, then can try turning more with knees/ankles.

For toe to heel, your front knee will open to the left and your foot will twist to left to make the turn. Using the lower joints will make the turn happen faster but if you are counter-rotating, you need to fix that first by focusing on keeping the position of your upper body align with your lower body.

Here is a good video on basics of turning:

You can't get a good carve while counter-rotated, so once that part is fixed you should feel your riding improve a lot.

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SEWiShred

· #4 · 3 mo ago

Along with the other good advice in this thread, are your boots centered properly on your board or are they too far toeside? Can you post pictures?

Legendaryl

Discussion Starter · #5 · 3 mo ago

kumarankittravel said:
It sounds like you are having difficulty maintaining the same smooth turns on your heel edge that you are able to do on your toe edge. This is a common problem for snowboarders, especially beginners or those who have been riding for a short time.
There could be several reasons why you are struggling with your heel edge turns. It could be related to your stance or body position, your technique, or the condition of the snow or terrain you are riding on.
One way to improve your heel edge turns is to focus on your weight distribution and body position. Make sure your weight is evenly distributed between your front and back foot, and keep your knees bent and your body facing down the slope.
Another technique that can be helpful is to practice skidding turns on your heel edge. Start by traversing across the slope on your heel edge, then gradually increase the angle of your board until you start to skid and slide. Practice controlling your speed and direction by adjusting the amount of pressure you put on your edges.
Finally, it's important to remember that learning to snowboard takes time and practice. Don't get discouraged if you don't master heel edge turns right away. Keep practicing, and you'll eventually develop the skills and confidence you need to ride with ease.

Regenerate response

Thanks for the advices. Will keep in mind and keep practicing!

Legendaryl

Discussion Starter · #6 · 3 mo ago

money4me247 said:
It sounds like you are counter-rotating your body (upper body twisting in a different direction to your lower body).

For toeside to heelside transition for a regular rider, you should be opening your front shoulder to the left in the same direction of your turn (not twisting it to the opposite direction to the right - that is counter rotation and will throw off your balance).

You may be counter-rotated on your toeside edge as well. For toeside turns your shoulder should be turning to the right and you aren't able to look directly down the hill. Many people want to see directly downhill with on toeside so they end up counter rotating their body. Keep the correct body position with shoulder aligned and just look across the slope.

Try riding with your hands on your hips focusing on keeping your upper body inalign with your lower body.

Do your turns slower on mellower terrain! (counter rotation often happens when someone is riding too fast and trying to force a turn around quicker or scrub speed). To start do slow turns with with entire body align: first looking where you want to go, point your shoulder in that same direction, and hips and knees will follow. Always keep your shoulder inalign with your board. Once you are comfortable with keeping everything inalign, then can try turning more with knees/ankles.

For toe to heel, your front knee will open to the left and your foot will twist to left to make the turn. Using the lower joints will make the turn happen faster but if you are counter-rotating, you need to fix that first by focusing on keeping the position of your upper body align with your lower body.

Here is a good video on basics of turning:

You can't get a good carve while counter-rotated, so once that part is fixed you should feel your riding improve a lot.

Thanks! I don’t think I’m counter-rotating though. But nonetheless I’ll practice what you have said and internalise that video. Appreciate it!

Legendaryl

Discussion Starter · #7 · 3 mo ago

4

SEWiShred said:
Along with the other good advice in this thread, are your boots centered properly on your board or are they too far toeside? Can you post pictures?

Wood Grey Comfort Floor Beige

Wood Flooring Floor Bumper Hardwood

Wood Flooring Floor Bumper Automotive tire

Wood Grey Automotive design Flooring Floor

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money4me247

· #8 · 3 mo ago

Legendaryl said:
Thanks! I don’t think I’m counter-rotating though. But nonetheless I’ll practice what you have said and internalise that video. Appreciate it!

"However, whenever I do ‘2’, it feels very weird and I have to actively close/turn my left shoulder (I’m regular) towards the right. But this feeling make me feel weird and throws my balance and “squat” off balance "

Based on what you wrote above, you are describing counter-rotation. For regular riders doing a heelside turn, your front (left) shoulder should OPEN and turn towards the LEFT (in the same direction of travel as the nose of your board). Turning your front shoulder to the RIGHT while on heelside is twisting your upper body in the opposite direction of your board's travel.

Best way to check for counter-rotation is to film yourself riding.

Your diagram also suggests that there is something fundamental that needs to be fixed either with your body position or technique. You should NOT be skidding inward along the red arrows while carving on the heelside as the pressure from the carved turn is directed out of the turn.

I edited your diagram to demonstrate how carved S-turns should look.

Organism Font Slope Technology Terrestrial plant

I think it would be very helpful for you to film your riding (can either compare it yourself against how professional riders or post on the forums for additional feedback). There is probably some adjustments that need to be made with either body position or technique, and then everything will click into place.

Here is a good video about S-shaped carved turns is here:

It goes over early edge changes and some additional techniques for flowing smoothly from one edge to another for carved turns. If you look at his riding, his shoulders always remain parallel to his board. Torsional twist of both feet and shifting weight forward to back is some further advanced techniques that he links at the end of his video.

I do think there may be something a bit more basic that may be hampering your progression, so I think your best bet is either film yourself riding or a lesson with a certified instructor.

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Snowdaddy

· #9 · 3 mo ago

kumarankittravel said:
Regenerate response

LoL

QReuCk2

· #10 · 3 mo ago

Snowdaddy said:
LoL

Yep. I'm yet to even start using ChatGPT, but reading this answer my thought was "this is exactly how I imagine chatGPT answering this question".

So I'll do a purely human answer: The OP said:

Legendaryl said:
However, whenever I do ‘2’, it feels very weird and I have to actively close/turn my left shoulder (I’m regular) towards the right. But this feeling make me feel weird and throws my balance and “squat” off balance

This to me doesn't mean you have to close your front shoulder and counter rotate. In my opinion, it probably means you ride with a pronounced duck stance but have a reflex of tucking your back knee inside when turning heeledge, while riding probably a board that is torsionally soft between the feet. This tucking the back knee applies torsion to your board, generating less edge angle under the back foot than under the front foot, causing the oversteering. Another possibility is that your basic stance might actually be facing too much forward for your binding angles.
When closing your front shoulder, you actually realign your torso and put less pressure on the back knee, which in turn generates less torsion to the board, so less oversteering.

If it's what I think, here are possible workarounds:

consiously try to keep the knees well separated (still feels wierd at first, but less than closing the front shoulder)
ride with a less pronounced duck stance
some other points mentionned actually work, but if your problem is too much torsion, they are lower priority in my opinion.

Anyway this is just my opinion based on your drawing and quick description, and that is in no way any more valid than any other opinion expressed there. Except the one of ChatGPT. ChatGPT has no snowboarding experience.

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Snowdaddy

· #11 · 3 mo ago

kumarankittravel said:
nother technique that can be helpful is to practice skidding turns on your heel edge. Start by traversing across the slope on your heel edge, then gradually increase the angle of your board until you start to skid and slide. Practice controlling your speed and direction by adjusting the amount of pressure you put on your edges.

QReuCk2 said:
Yep. I'm yet to even start using ChatGPT, but reading this answer my thought was "this is exactly how I imagine chatGPT answering this question".

AI is great at generating seemingly good texts, but it’s often not actually working.

Snowdaddy

· #12 · 3 mo ago

Legendaryl said:
Thanks for the advices. Will keep in mind and keep practicing!

It’s AI generated spam.

Donutz

· #13 · 3 mo ago

Snowdaddy said:
AI is great at generating seemingly good texts, but it’s often not actually working.

If you read the response in question, it doesn't actually answer the question. Just basically says "there are lots of reasons why this could be happening and this could be some of them." And as qreuck2 said, AIs generate glib, superficially reasonable word salad that doesn't actually convey any insight.

wrathfuldeity

· #14 · 3 mo ago

Donutz said:
If you read the response in question, it doesn't actually answer the question. Just basically says "there are lots of reasons why this could be happening and this could be some of them." And as qreuck2 said, AIs generate glib, superficially reasonable word salad that doesn't actually convey any insight.

Political wilderness... :sipcoffee:

:sipcoffee:

robsricketts

· #15 · 2 mo ago

I have a Burton Custom (this years) and I'm a big fan of carving. I find my heel carve is good on mellow terrain, but as it gets faster or more incline my heel carve almost studders or chatters. What causes this to happen? It's like the board unloads and hops which causes me to lose the carve all together and then have to adjust and complete my turn. Thanks for any input?

money4me247

· #16 · 2 mo ago

robsricketts said:
I have a Burton Custom (this years) and I'm a big fan of carving. I find my heel carve is good on mellow terrain, but as it gets faster or more incline my heel carve almost studders or chatters. What causes this to happen? It's like the board unloads and hops which causes me to lose the carve all together and then have to adjust and complete my turn. Thanks for any input?

Heelside chatter is most likely due to your weight not being stacked directly over the heelside edge. Need to keep chest upright, knees bent and shins forward while you squat your hips down. A common mistake is legs too straight and bending forward at the waist while on heelside and that will cause chatter and slipping out.

Here is a helpful video on pressure management and the drill he goes over will help you reduce heelside chatter.

I also have a Burton Custom!! and I do really love it

Legendaryl

Discussion Starter · #17 · 2 mo ago

QReuCk2 said:
Yep. I'm yet to even start using ChatGPT, but reading this answer my thought was "this is exactly how I imagine chatGPT answering this question".

So I'll do a purely human answer: The OP said:

This to me doesn't mean you have to close your front shoulder and counter rotate. In my opinion, it probably means you ride with a pronounced duck stance but have a reflex of tucking your back knee inside when turning heeledge, while riding probably a board that is torsionally soft between the feet. This tucking the back knee applies torsion to your board, generating less edge angle under the back foot than under the front foot, causing the oversteering. Another possibility is that your basic stance might actually be facing too much forward for your binding angles.
When closing your front shoulder, you actually realign your torso and put less pressure on the back knee, which in turn generates less torsion to the board, so less oversteering.

If it's what I think, here are possible workarounds:

consiously try to keep the knees well separated (still feels wierd at first, but less than closing the front shoulder)

ride with a less pronounced duck stance

some other points mentionned actually work, but if your problem is too much torsion, they are lower priority in my opinion.

Anyway this is just my opinion based on your drawing and quick description, and that is in no way any more valid than any other opinion expressed there. Except the one of ChatGPT. ChatGPT has no snowboarding experience.

@money4me247 @QReuCk2 - thanks for your both detailed response. I will look into the video by Malcom Moore. Not saying I completely did not counter-rotate, but I am very conscious of it and have had instructors as well as other people riding with me and not pointing out that I have a severe counter-rotating issue that would have caused it. That said, I'm definitely not a super proficient rider and not saying I didn't counter-rotate but I don't think the whole issue is sole based on it. However, I think what @QReuCk2 said had made sense and felt like what the issue is for me; it could be my weight distribution? Could be my binding angles and stance width? as I have pointed out that the HeelEdge "sitting/getting low/not breaking at waist while bending low" feels very weird and awkward whenever I "squat/sit/get low/not slouching/not bending at waist"... It definitely did not feel natural and could be my back leg stance angle and width? Also, it could be I'm naturally leaning on my back foot more and not having equal weight distribution?

How do I fix that weird feeling on heel side? How is it suppose to feel? Or is it supposed to feel weird?

Please see this link for a similar heel traverse that I am doing. (this guy is not me, and is an instructor who's doing that on purpose for other purposes for his video, but I happened to see the similar way the board(back leg) slides/skids instead of drawing a pencil line).

Heelside turn.mp4

drive.google.com

drive.google.com

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masotime

· #18 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

Legendaryl said:
have had instructors as well as other people riding with me

Nice! I personally rarely have had this convenience. Have you tried asking them to film you? I think posting such a film here would go a long way in helping diagnose your issues.

EDIT: Looks like your most recent post w/video was about 8 months ago - [Need help] Beginner's S-Turns

Updated video would help a lot - it’s unclear to me how much progress you might have made since then. How many days of riding have you had since?

Reactions: 1

Legendaryl

Discussion Starter · #19 · 2 mo ago

masotime said:
Nice! I personally rarely have had this convenience. Have you tried asking them to film you? I think posting such a film here would go a long way in helping diagnose your issues.

EDIT: Looks like your most recent post w/video was about 8 months ago - [Need help] Beginner's S-Turns

Updated video would help a lot - it’s unclear to me how much progress you might have made since then. How many days of riding have you had since?

Thanks. I'll have to source for the videos of me riding. Unfortunately, most of the time I'm riding by myself, so I don't have anyone taking videos of me.

Separately, can I ask if you guys have any tips/guides/video links for me to understand how does one heel turn while their shin is against the tongue of the boots? I don't have a video of myself, but from memory and muscle memory, I don't think that whenever I heel turn/on heel edge, my shin is pushed towards my tongue, instead I feel my shin is away from the tongue of the boot.

money4me247

· #20 · 2 mo ago

Legendaryl said:
Thanks. I'll have to source for the videos of me riding. Unfortunately, most of the time I'm riding by myself, so I don't have anyone taking videos of me.

Separately, can I ask if you guys have any tips/guides/video links for me to understand how does one heel turn while their shin is against the tongue of the boots? I don't have a video of myself, but from memory and muscle memory, I don't think that whenever I heel turn/on heel edge, my shin is pushed towards my tongue, instead I feel my shin is away from the tongue of the boot.

You press forward you shins by keeping knees bent and flexibg your ankles by lifting toes.

Snowboard Addiction has great vids on body position

Edit - This one is probably better:

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