[money4me247]

The most common issue with heelside turns is keeping legs too straight & bending at waist instead of squatting down with knees/ankles. Here is a good coaching video on proper heelside technique.

If you can post a video of your riding, people can give more detailed feedback.

A variation of the drill mentioned above is practicing straight-lining to a fast heelside brake. You will need to keep your chest upright and bend your knees and ankles to absorb the pressure. If your body position isn't good, you will chatter out and fall. It is a good way to get realtime feedback on body position without a camera.

Video going over the drill here:

 

[money4me247]

Hi everyone, I am facing an issue with my heel edge. I have no problem with my toe edge turning with pencil line trail. However, whenever I turn to my heel edge, I feel I am unable to maintain pencil line turns across the mountain. I, in the end sliding my turn according to ‘1’ in the image:
View attachment 167408
However, whenever I do ‘2’, it feels very weird and I have to actively close/turn my left shoulder (I’m regular) towards the right. But this feeling make me feel weird and throws my balance and “squat” off balance

Any advice would be much appreciated please🙏🏻

thank you in advance!!!

It sounds like you are counter-rotating your body (upper body twisting in a different direction to your lower body).

For toeside to heelside transition for a regular rider, you should be opening your front shoulder to the left in the same direction of your turn (not twisting it to the opposite direction to the right - that is counter rotation and will throw off your balance).

You may be counter-rotated on your toeside edge as well. For toeside turns your shoulder should be turning to the right and you aren't able to look directly down the hill. Many people want to see directly downhill with on toeside so they end up counter rotating their body. Keep the correct body position with shoulder aligned and just look across the slope.

Try riding with your hands on your hips focusing on keeping your upper body inalign with your lower body.

Do your turns slower on mellower terrain! (counter rotation often happens when someone is riding too fast and trying to force a turn around quicker or scrub speed). To start do slow turns with with entire body align: first looking where you want to go, point your shoulder in that same direction, and hips and knees will follow. Always keep your shoulder inalign with your board. Once you are comfortable with keeping everything inalign, then can try turning more with knees/ankles.

For toe to heel, your front knee will open to the left and your foot will twist to left to make the turn. Using the lower joints will make the turn happen faster but if you are counter-rotating, you need to fix that first by focusing on keeping the position of your upper body align with your lower body.

Here is a good video on basics of turning:

You can't get a good carve while counter-rotated, so once that part is fixed you should feel your riding improve a lot.

 

[money4me247]

Thanks! I don’t think I’m counter-rotating though. But nonetheless I’ll practice what you have said and internalise that video. Appreciate it!

"However, whenever I do ‘2’, it feels very weird and I have to actively close/turn my left shoulder (I’m regular) towards the right. But this feeling make me feel weird and throws my balance and “squat” off balance "

Based on what you wrote above, you are describing counter-rotation. For regular riders doing a heelside turn, your front (left) shoulder should OPEN and turn towards the LEFT (in the same direction of travel as the nose of your board). Turning your front shoulder to the RIGHT while on heelside is twisting your upper body in the opposite direction of your board's travel.

Best way to check for counter-rotation is to film yourself riding.

Your diagram also suggests that there is something fundamental that needs to be fixed either with your body position or technique. You should NOT be skidding inward along the red arrows while carving on the heelside as the pressure from the carved turn is directed out of the turn.

I edited your diagram to demonstrate how carved S-turns should look.

I think it would be very helpful for you to film your riding (can either compare it yourself against how professional riders or post on the forums for additional feedback). There is probably some adjustments that need to be made with either body position or technique, and then everything will click into place.

Here is a good video about S-shaped carved turns is here:

It goes over early edge changes and some additional techniques for flowing smoothly from one edge to another for carved turns. If you look at his riding, his shoulders always remain parallel to his board. Torsional twist of both feet and shifting weight forward to back is some further advanced techniques that he links at the end of his video.

I do think there may be something a bit more basic that may be hampering your progression, so I think your best bet is either film yourself riding or a lesson with a certified instructor.

 

[money4me247]

I have a Burton Custom (this years) and I'm a big fan of carving. I find my heel carve is good on mellow terrain, but as it gets faster or more incline my heel carve almost studders or chatters. What causes this to happen? It's like the board unloads and hops which causes me to lose the carve all together and then have to adjust and complete my turn. Thanks for any input?

Heelside chatter is most likely due to your weight not being stacked directly over the heelside edge. Need to keep chest upright, knees bent and shins forward while you squat your hips down. A common mistake is legs too straight and bending forward at the waist while on heelside and that will cause chatter and slipping out.

Here is a helpful video on pressure management and the drill he goes over will help you reduce heelside chatter.

I also have a Burton Custom!! and I do really love it

 

[money4me247]

Thanks. I'll have to source for the videos of me riding. Unfortunately, most of the time I'm riding by myself, so I don't have anyone taking videos of me.

Separately, can I ask if you guys have any tips/guides/video links for me to understand how does one heel turn while their shin is against the tongue of the boots? I don't have a video of myself, but from memory and muscle memory, I don't think that whenever I heel turn/on heel edge, my shin is pushed towards my tongue, instead I feel my shin is away from the tongue of the boot.

You press forward you shins by keeping knees bent and flexibg your ankles by lifting toes.

Snowboard Addiction has great vids on body position

Edit - This one is probably better:

 

[money4me247]

@money4me247 @QReuCk2 - thanks for your both detailed response. I will look into the video by Malcom Moore. Not saying I completely did not counter-rotate, but I am very conscious of it and have had instructors as well as other people riding with me and not pointing out that I have a severe counter-rotating issue that would have caused it. That said, I'm definitely not a super proficient rider and not saying I didn't counter-rotate but I don't think the whole issue is sole based on it. However, I think what @QReuCk2 said had made sense and felt like what the issue is for me; it could be my weight distribution? Could be my binding angles and stance width? as I have pointed out that the HeelEdge "sitting/getting low/not breaking at waist while bending low" feels very weird and awkward whenever I "squat/sit/get low/not slouching/not bending at waist"... It definitely did not feel natural and could be my back leg stance angle and width? Also, it could be I'm naturally leaning on my back foot more and not having equal weight distribution?

How do I fix that weird feeling on heel side? How is it suppose to feel? Or is it supposed to feel weird?

Please see this link for a similar heel traverse that I am doing. (this guy is not me, and is an instructor who's doing that on purpose for other purposes for his video, but I happened to see the similar way the board(back leg) slides/skids instead of drawing a pencil line).

Heelside turn.mp4

drive.google.com

I had written a long response to this but my computer crashed, so here is a shorter version

I run into the same issue regarding it being hard to get film of myself as I also mostly ride solo, but during lessons, always ask your instructor to film you & you can review the film with them on the chair lift! Can also ask someone cool on the chairlift if they wouldn't mind filming a lap for you. Most people are happy to help someone wanting to improve.

Stance width / angles:
For stance width - if your board is the right size for you (weight-wise), just use reference stance. This is usually equal to slightly more than shoulder width apart type athletic stance that allows you to squat and stand up easily (usually the same length as your forearm). What is your weight, board length, and stance width?

For binding angles - probably easiest to start with a symmetrical duck (+9/-9, +12/-12, or +15/-15) depending on what feels comfortable for you. That way you can also practice what you are doing switch as well.

Or can try a slightly asymmetrical duck (+18/-9 for example) or even positive/positive angles... there is really no right answer, depends on what feels comfortable for you. But I think symmetrical duck is best while learning in the beginning so can learn switch in the beginning.

Counter-rotation:
For a regular rider, your front (left) shoulder should go right when turning onto toes and go left when turning onto heels. You describe front shoulder going right when going onto heels, so that is the definition of counter rotation. You can be well aligned during the transverse but still counter-rotate during your turns. Best way to tell is just to film it. Drill would be riding with your hands on your hips and concentrate on where your front shoulder goes during each turn. If the front shoulder is going in the same direction as the turn, then you are doing it right.

Weight Distribution:
To be honest, probably best to just try to keep your weight centered on the board to start. You can do small hops while riding and trying to stay & land on your edge to start (hopping will force your weight to be centered). More important for carving is engaging the edge by using your lower joints (especially ankles and knees) and sounds like you are still practicing that.

The weight shifting (more weight on front foot at the start when turning... and then shifting weight back to keep the edge locked down for your back foot while you are finishing the turn) is more advanced add-on skill that is more useful when you figure out how to use your ankles. Weight should be slightly forward on the front foot at the start of the turn because you can turn easier with more weight in front. Weight goes back as it helps lock down edge and prevent the back foot from skidding (however, if your ankles aren't locking in the edge, you will still skid). To practice the weight shifting, you can try to carve uphill after a traverse - you need to move your weight slightly back onto your back foot to go uphill on a carve.

Body positioning:
Try the body positioning of toes and heels in the carving video above from snowboard addiction while strapped in but on flat ground (maybe even at home on the carpet). Do it next to something you can hold onto for balance. You can even setup your phone to take a video/photos of you practicing, and you can compare your body position to the videos. It is a lot easier to tell what you are doing wrong when you can see it yourself. You can even pretend to make a turn and see where your shoulders go. You can post that type of video / picture to get feedback on your body position as well.

Skidded turns vs Carved turns:
Skidded turns is a perfectly viable way to ride (for example, mogul riding or riding on ice is mostly skidded turns). Carved turns require a lot of your body position and technique to be really on point, so that's why it is good practice. Focus on good skidded turns with the right body position and technique first prior to worrying about carved turns. When you have the right body position and technique, trying carved turns becomes a lot easier. When practicing carving, do it on a green slope - you will pick up too much speed when learning to do it on steep slopes and you will need to skid to slow down.

Hope this is helpful & good luck!

 

[money4me247]

@money4me247 Thanks for your long reply and I understand and watched a lot of videos and sort of "know" what I'm supposed to be doing vs. what I am 'able' to do. For e.g. (see attached image), I know I am supposed to push the shin forward with knees bent and lift my toes. But somehow I am unable to do that, especially lifting toes while "sited/squat" (not sure if its physical/anatomy issue?) - pushing shin forwards from the resultant of knees bending. Instead, whenever I bend my knees and "sit/squat" I can't seem to push my shin forward. I am the left photo (not drawn to scale for other parts of the body position, take it for what its worth to explain just solely the "shin" issue).
View attachment 167635

Probably hips too far back / leaning too far back. You can even see it in your stick drawing, if your hips are more above your heel edge, you get the right position but sitting too far back, you can't get it. You also don't have to squat down that much for normal turns... people get more aggressively lower for high angle carving, but for a normal turns, you are not squatting down so far that your knees are up tp your waist.

Thanks for the detailed reply and guides. Will review it against my riding. Thanks a lot!
As for my stats.
Weight: 174lbs / 79kg
Board Length: 156cm
Stance width: 20.5" to 21.5" (played around)
Binding angles: Played with +18/-12, +15/-12, +15/-9, +12/-12, +9/-9.

Those are all pretty normal stance width and binding angles. Shouldn't be causing an issue if you feel comfy with it.

Found another video. This is when I was in Japan in December, though I went for another trip just 2 weeks back. This lap is me taking it slow (trying to focus on my technique) on red/blue runs (depending on which part of the globe).

Google Drive: Sign-in

Access Google Drive with a Google account (for personal use) or Google Workspace account (for business use).

drive.google.com

For your advice and comments please

Can't access it slash video doesnt open for me.

 

[money4me247]

I see. Yeah my drawing was not intended to be exactly as what it is, just the gist/concept of it as disclaimed. I drew it on iPhone with my fat finger. haha

But "Hips too far back/leaning too far back"? But if I don't lean back, I can't seem to "squat/sit" into the heel or keep my body upright. What do you mean by "if your hips are more above your heel edge, you get the right position but sitting too far back, you can't get it?"



Yeah im comfortable with most of these less then super duck stance.



Apologies. ToBeUploaded.MP4

Overall, not bad. I think some more time on the slopes will help you feel more comfortable.

FIRST THING TO WORK ON:
The very first turn I think illustrates the problem you were describing where your front shoulders rebound right while you are heelside turning. The reason for this is because you're twisting your upper body first to try to force the turn around quicker. Try to turn slower like Snowdaddy said. The upper body turning out of sync will throw off your balance and make you feel unstable while riding and your shoulder will counter-rotate back the other way to try to get back into balance. This does get better further in the video, but your upper body and lower body are a bit disjointed at times and I think that contributes to how you feel sketchy / took tentative with your turns.

Do slower larger turns that take up more space on the run. Try to move your shoulder, hips, knees, and ankles all at the same time smoothly in the direction you want to turn. No need to try to force the change of direction so quickly, you can ride out a larger turn. More weight on your front foot like Snowdaddy said will help you be able to turn. Your weight looks relatively centered (and slightly more front foot already). You are not riding too backseat which is good!

You may be trying to ride down in too narrow of a corridor and trying to turn too quickly (so will subconsciously be using the upper body to try to force the turn around faster). Really really focus on large wide swooping turns across at least half of the run and make the turns symmetrical round half circles.

Once you are always turning with your body fully aligned and moving everything in the same direction at the same time in big swooping turns, you can try focusing on using more of your lower body to initiate the turns: ankles and knees to start the turn which will make the turn faster. Don't try to make faster turns with your upper body, that will throw off your body alignment and make you off balance.

TIP FOR TOESIDE:
Other big thing is that your weight isn't always stacked well over the edge. You keep your hips bent in a pretty fixed angle on your heel turns and toe turns, and seem to tilt with your chest onto the toeside. For toeside, try to really focus on an almost "pelvic thrust forward" to move the hips over the midline of the board and keep hips forward and really bend the knees and ankles. The hips actually should shift over the midline of the board whenever you make an edge change. Try being on toeside with hips forward and not bent and bending more with knees and ankles and you should feel more shins forward as well. Don't lean with your chest to make the turns.

TIP FOR HEELSIDE:
For the heelside turns, you are bending more at the waist while not bending the knees enough. Don't think about your hips or squatting on the heelside, but focus on bending the knees, lifting the toes, and keeping your chest upright (your hips should naturally sink down that way).

GETTING MORE DYNAMIC:
I think the drill of straight lining and then quickly turning to break (either heelside or toeside) will help you get more dynamic turns where you get used to that movement of using all your lower joints (rising up and sinking down). The pressure video by snowboard addiction is a good one to watch about that.

BAD HABIT TO STOP - KICKING OUT BACK FOOT:
You are kicking out your back foot during the turns (this can be helpful for quick emergency stops, but don't want to do that for regular riding). Really focus on turning using your front knee and ankles while letting your back leg follow. Do bigger turns and don't rush it. This goes with the first part about slowing down and keeping everything aligned. Moving your weight slight back will help lock down the back foot like Snowdaddy said.


Overall, your riding looks fine. Just need to slow down the turn (don't try to change directions too quickly like Snowdaddy said) and really focus on good body position and get more time on the slopes. Snowdaddy's tips are really good advice and really pertinent to helping you improve your riding!