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You don’t have to have a pile of $. Buying used boards that have vastly different specs is a great way to learn about both equipment and riding itself.
 

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Well no shit there are specifics about each specific board that make riding "easier". I own a Capita Spring break. Thing bobs like an apple and I was unable to sink it. Literally tried. That said, I don't need it. I am perfectly fine riding a BSOD in deep snow up to my quad.

As far as backcountry goes, VERY FEW people are riding pow that needs a snorkel. If you are riding in the US this year, outside of blower snow that's piled up, you probably couldn't find it in the backcountry. A trip to Japan? Yeah, sure, pow board would be great for tits deep snow.

But 99% of this board can get away with a Flight Attendant, Arbor Iguchi, Jones Flagship, Capita BSOD, etc without ever needing a pow board, because unless you are consistently up to your waist, a good rider could take a NS Evo out and ride pow just fine.

I am more responding to your comment that most people are bad riders, so 1 board is fine. It's actually the opposite. Most people that need to build out a quiver, need to cheat in powder because they can't get their float attendant to float enough on a 15 inch day, and feel they needed a dedicated pow board.

It's the same thing with park boards. Mark McMorris can hit rails with a stiffer cambered stick. He doesn't need a soft noodle to ride park.

I tried a Spring Break. Love it. Easiest pow rider I've ever ridden. Do I need it? Nope, that's why it's up for sale in the buy / sell section. Unless I'm in 3 plus feet everyday, the return is minimal to just riding my Guch or BSOD. And I feel I am a good enough rider that I don't need it. My back leg isn't burning because I have technique. I think plenty of posters on this board do that too.
It not just about making it easier. Would you play 18 holes of golf with one club? Surf Big Waves (like EA Classic or Mavs) on a 6’4” retro fish? Ride an Enduro course on a Harley sportster? Play squash with a tennis racquet? All are possible. But it’s better to use the right tool.
Again, not the point. You made the comment that people that ride a Flight Attendant as a one bird quiver can’t ride.

That’s such a terrible conclusion. Guch rides his pro model until he made a surfboard about a season ago. Rice is on his Goldmember and filmed art of flight mostly on a pro pointy model. Mueller on his deck, Jamie Lynn on basically a cambered deck with a slight setback.

Asked another way, what pro is riding with a pure pow deck, swallow tail and all?
 

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Pow boards usually have the opposite of a tight sidecut. The sides are often close to flat/straight.
Plenty of people hard booting on the Dupraz.

As for Pow boards having a long sidecut;
Burton Fish, Panhandler, Skeleton Key, Skipjack, Flight Attendant, Dump Truck etc.
Dupraz
Jones Mind Expander
Flow Darwin/Enigma
Rome Powder Division boards, ST, MT, PT.
Ride Warpig, K2 Simple Pleasures or Party Platter, Yes 420 or Optimistic
Prior Fissle and Slasher
Many of the Moss or Gentems.

Every single one of those boards, except maybe the Rome PT have sidecuts of 8.0m or lower. I'd also ride pow or carve all day on 90% of them, quite happily. If I actually put some time into digging deeper I'm sure I could double that list, as well.
 
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Plenty of people hard booting on the Dupraz.

As for Pow boards having a long sidecut;
Burton Fish, Panhandler, Skeleton Key, Skipjack, Flight Attendant, Dump Truck etc.
Dupraz
Jones Mind Expander
Flow Darwin/Enigma
Rome Powder Division boards, ST, MT, PT.
Ride Warpig, K2 Simple Pleasures or Party Platter, Yes 420 or Optimistic
Prior Fissle and Slasher
Many of the Moss or Gentems.

Every single one of those boards, except maybe the Rome PT have sidecuts of 8.0m or lower. I'd also ride pow or carve all day on 90% of them, quite happily. If I actually put some time into digging deeper I'm sure I could double that list, as well.
I think we’re using terms differently. Long sidecut radius is in my mind like 11 or 12 meters.

I have a D1 + and I’ve ridden it in plates and soft. It’s not a carver by any stretch. Fun? Oui. A carver? No. It has a vsr that’s around 8 but...and this is a big but...the effective edge is tiny. The radius cuts about 18 inches from the tip. The board has a huge nose that can’t be used for carving. Classic pow shape. A very fun board in many respects. but hard to ride in chop or to carve on hardpack camber starts pretty far back. The nose is rockered.
 

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Again, not the point. You made the comment that people that ride a Flight Attendant as a one bird quiver can’t ride.

That’s such a terrible conclusion. Guch rides his pro model until he made a surfboard about a season ago. Rice is on his Goldmember and filmed art of flight mostly on a pro pointy model. Mueller on his deck, Jamie Lynn on basically a cambered deck with a slight setback.

Asked another way, what pro is riding with a pure pow deck, swallow tail and all?
I didn’t make the comment you attribute to me. I don’t know what a flight attendant is. I also don’t know much about pro snowboarding. I’m more interested in boards and how they work.
 

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Long sidecut radius is in my mind like 11 or 12 meters.
Agreed.

Pow boards usually have the opposite of a tight sidecut. The sides are often close to flat/straight.
So if pow boards, in your words, "usually have the opposite of a tight sidecut", meaning a long one, then why do all of those boards I listed have a sidecut of 8m or lower, and excel in powder.
 
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Pow boards usually have the opposite of a tight sidecut. The sides are often close to flat/straight.

I can’t say I’ve heard of any carve bros putting plates on a fish. You mean for carving or for special pow? Most full on carvers I know seem to believe their carve setups suck in pow. Many reach for soft boots after it snows. Or they’ll put plates on a OSin 3800 or similar. Or maybe a 4wd. The problem with hardboots on a board not made for them is the boots overpowering the board. It’s not pleasant.
Nah. Lots of 'pure pow' boards with really tight sidecuts.

I guess the thing lies in what you call carving. If by carving you mean BX racing or that russian stuff then yeah..... THEY ride very specific boards. But most people don't refer to that when they talk about carving. So that's why there's lots of boards which are actually really good for both pow and carving.

It's not even a Korua thing. Far from it. There's been lots of boards before Korua, during and after.

Asked another way, what pro is riding with a pure pow deck, swallow tail and all?
Terje on a Cheetah in standing sideways full part.
Jake Blauvelt on a Alter Ego for most of Naturally.
Bryan Fox in all of Depth Perception.
Austen Sweetin was on a 420 in some shots in After Forever.

:D
 

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Agreed.



So if pow boards, in your words, "usually have the opposite of a tight sidecut", meaning a long one, then why do all of those boards I listed have a sidecut of 8m or lower, and excel in powder.
The usual diff would be where that sidecut is located and how much effective edge there is relative to board length.
 

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Again, not the point. You made the comment that people that ride a Flight Attendant as a one bird quiver can’t ride.

That’s such a terrible conclusion. Guch rides his pro model until he made a surfboard about a season ago. Rice is on his Goldmember and filmed art of flight mostly on a pro pointy model. Mueller on his deck, Jamie Lynn on basically a cambered deck with a slight setback.

Asked another way, what pro is riding with a pure pow deck, swallow tail and all?
I didn’t make the comment you attribute to me. I don’t know what a flight attendant is. I also don’t know much about pro snowboarding. I’m more interested in boards and how they work.
It appears the implication was that non-exceptional riders ride 1 stick, and better riders find specific boards for specific purposes. To which I would 1000% disagree. I know many intermediate riders with quivers, and many advanced, and a couple experts, that ride their mid-soft twin everywhere, and do it with more style than most.

That might have been your own personal experience, but feel you are talking in extremes. IE like the comment above referring to hard boot carvers, or going to Japan to ride 4 ft deep snow.

Much like the waxing thread, where you imply the need for 4 coats of fluro if you are serious about riding, which outside of racing, is another ridiculous extreme statement
 

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You missed my point. If I were to take two steps back and try to identify my overall point: most people on the mountain ride like shit and don’t know how to ride the one board they own. I assume they’re not on this board with any regularity. They’re the kinda bros who buy boards based on marketing material. And on what’s on deep discount. I’m not talking to them because I’m sure they aren’t listening. If you know how to ride a board and you are building a quiver then do not be confused. A pow board is a pow board. A carving board is a carving board. Any one board that claims to be both is a compromise. Some people should compromise. Some people who live in places that get a fair bit of pow might wanna give up Carve performance for a dual purpose board if it’s their one board or they need a compromise board. But it won’t carve like a carver or pow like a pow board. If you live in groomerland, iceville and you wanna carve, then you really should buy a camber board with a long effective edge. Skip the combination pow carve board. Best solution: buy 6 or 7 boards with very different specs. (Im not suggesting you do it all at once. Buy used. Ride each one at least a few times. Then sell the ones you don’t love. You actually don’t need a pair of bindings for every deck if you own a screwdriver and are willing to use it. Spend the money on boards. And travel.)
 

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It appears the implication was that non-exceptional riders ride 1 stick, and better riders find specific boards for specific purposes. To which I would 1000% disagree. I know many intermediate riders with quivers, and many advanced, and a couple experts, that ride their mid-soft twin everywhere, and do it with more style than most.

That might have been your own personal experience, but feel you are talking in extremes. IE like the comment above referring to hard boot carvers, or going to Japan to ride 4 ft deep snow.

Much like the waxing thread, where you imply the need for 4 coats of fluro if you are serious about riding, which outside of racing, is another ridiculous extreme statement
Dude why you hatin? I described how to do top level base prep. I’m fairly certain I said that I was a strange person in that thread. A super fast base brings me great happiness. Plus I actually enjoy the process. You may have no use for it. But if somebody was wondering I think I gave some half-useful info. You should reread it. I never said 4 coats of fluoro. You only need one. Layer up waxes from warmest to coldest then cork in the overlay. Then brush. Wear a respirator. And a hazmat suit. Do it in a cleanroom. Never in the same cleanroom you file edges in.
 

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You missed my point. If I were to take two steps back and try to identify my overall point: most people on the mountain ride like shit and don’t know how to ride the one board they own. I assume they’re not on this board with any regularity. They’re the kinda bros who buy boards based on marketing material. And on what’s on deep discount. I’m not talking to them because I’m sure they aren’t listening. If you know how to ride a board and you are building a quiver then do not be confused. A pow board is a pow board. A carving board is a carving board. Any one board that claims to be both is a compromise. Some people should compromise. Some people who live in places that get a fair bit of pow might wanna give up Carve performance for a dual purpose board if it’s their one board or they need a compromise board. But it won’t carve like a carver or pow like a pow board. If you live in groomerland, iceville and you wanna carve, then you really should buy a camber board with a long effective edge. Skip the combination pow carve board. Best solution: buy 6 or 7 boards with very different specs. (Im not suggesting you do it all at once. Buy used. Ride each one at least a few times. Then sell the ones you don’t love. You actually don’t need a pair of bindings for every deck if you own a screwdriver and are willing to use it. Spend the money on boards. And travel.)
I can get down with most of that. I still feel you can get both really well with a lot of decks, like an Optimistic, or BSOD, and so well that for the resort rider / slack country rider, which is still 90% of this board, will be completely fine. But see your point. A Custom X and a Spring Break compliment each other well.

I misunderstood the weaker rider comment. My bad.
 

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You missed my point. If I were to take two steps back and try to identify my overall point: most people on the mountain ride like shit and don’t know how to ride the one board they own. I assume they’re not on this board with any regularity. They’re the kinda bros who buy boards based on marketing material. And on what’s on deep discount. I’m not talking to them because I’m sure they aren’t listening. If you know how to ride a board and you are building a quiver then do not be confused. A pow board is a pow board. A carving board is a carving board. Any one board that claims to be both is a compromise. Some people should compromise. Some people who live in places that get a fair bit of pow might wanna give up Carve performance for a dual purpose board if it’s their one board or they need a compromise board. But it won’t carve like a carver or pow like a pow board. If you live in groomerland, iceville and you wanna carve, then you really should buy a camber board with a long effective edge. Skip the combination pow carve board. Best solution: buy 6 or 7 boards with very different specs. (Im not suggesting you do it all at once. Buy used. Ride each one at least a few times. Then sell the ones you don’t love. You actually don’t need a pair of bindings for every deck if you own a screwdriver and are willing to use it. Spend the money on boards. And travel.)
Still a strawman argument. Of course a board that is great in pow and great at carving will be a little bit of a compromise.
Hint 1: It is a compromise that works for the vast majority of riders. Just by pointing at somebody very extreme (and potentially imaginary) does not invalidate the fact that it is perfectly possible to have a board that is good enough at both carving and powder.
Hint 2: In fact every board is a compromise. Even your super duper specialized carving deck has a fixed sidecut radius etc Should people have multiple carving decks depending on whether they want to make large or small turns?
See what happens when you take your argument ad absurdum?
 

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Dude why you hatin? I described how to do top level base prep. I’m fairly certain I said that I was a strange person in that thread. A super fast base brings me great happiness. Plus I actually enjoy the process. You may have no use for it. But if somebody was wondering I think I gave some half-useful info. You should reread it. I never said 4 coats of fluoro. You only need one. Layer up waxes from warmest to coldest then cork in the overlay. Then brush. Wear a respirator. And a hazmat suit. Do it in a cleanroom. Never in the same cleanroom you file edges in.
No you did not describe 'top level base prep'. You described what you do - which is perfectly fine if it makes you happy, but it wont' make your base one iota faster. If it did, all serious racers (think world cup, olympics etc) would do this stuff. Hint: Most of them don't.
Again, do as you like but don't present your opinion as gospel and denigrate everybody else.
 

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it is perfectly possible to have a board that is good enough....
Is that what you're looking for? A good enough board? Then you might enjoy a combo pow carving/board and not be frustrated by it's limitations. You should get one and enjoy riding it on pow days and on hardpack days too. But why do you want to deny that there are carving boards that carve better and pow boards that ride pow better than some kind of a "good enough" compromise board? That's the part I don't get.

Maybe if I was somewhere far away from home and had to buy or rent a board in a pinch I might wonder what was a "good enough board". Thankfully that's not the case. I think that anyone who needs a first board or wants to change out their one board that they have learned is a bad fit: you're probably looking for a "good enough" board. Makes sense. Once you get one you might want to buy a second board that is more specialized for the kind of riding you are pursuing.

Me? I am not interested in "good enough" boards. I'm looking for more purpose built stuff to add to my quiver. I thought that most people here were pretty much in the same spot I'm in and already had their "good enough" board category covered. Then again, some bros I know fall into the trap of essentially buying the same board over and over again, thereby building a large quiver of "good enough" boards that are pretty mediocre at handling a diverse range of conditions. I'm definitely trying to avoid doing that.
 

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No you did not describe 'top level base prep'. You described what you do - which is perfectly fine if it makes you happy, but it wont' make your base one iota faster. If it did, all serious racers (think world cup, olympics etc) would do this stuff. Hint: Most of them don't.
Again, do as you like but don't present your opinion as gospel and denigrate everybody else.
Look bro, my base prep definitely makes my board faster in the conditions on which I ride: often wet snow, manmade snow, and some mixed up refrozen conditions. I have zero doubt. To be fair, base prep doesn't seem to do a damn thing for ice. I've spent literally hundreds of days on the snow on boards I have prep'ed differently and to varying degrees. There's a difference. Does the law of diminishing returns apply? Yes, definitely. Could I get 85% of the glide by spending just 50% of the time I often spend? Yes, probably. Are there some conditions in which base prep is more important than other conditions? Yes, definitely. Are you right when you say that most serious racers don't care about base prep? Nope. I can't imagine where you'd get an idea like that. Do you use that bald assertion to justify not doing any base prep? Just curious, do you have any other hobbies or interests that might call for careful use of tools, techniques, and close attention to detail? I'm thinking of things like gardening, or woodworking, fly fiishing, bikes, working on cars? There are many others, of course. Are you that guy who says that it's a total waste of time to change the oil every 1000 miles on classic Ducati? The gardener who doesn't believe in amending soils with compost in the spring before planting? Etc.?

There's more to life than just "good enough." One day I hope you get the chance to ride a board that's really well suited to both the day's conditions and to what you want to do on the snow. And I hope that its base has been really well prep'ed for you by someone who follows the kind of techs that ski racers have developed over the last few decades.
 

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Look bro, my base prep definitely makes my board faster in the conditions on which I ride: often wet snow, manmade snow, and some mixed up refrozen conditions. I have zero doubt. To be fair, base prep doesn't seem to do a damn thing for ice. I've spent literally hundreds of days on the snow on boards I have prep'ed differently and to varying degrees. There's a difference. Does the law of diminishing returns apply? Yes, definitely. Could I get 85% of the glide by spending just 50% of the time I often spend? Yes, probably. Are there some conditions in which base prep is more important than other conditions? Yes, definitely. Are you right when you say that most serious racers don't care about base prep? Nope. I can't imagine where you'd get an idea like that. Do you use that bald assertion to justify not doing any base prep? Just curious, do you have any other hobbies or interests that might call for careful use of tools, techniques, and close attention to detail? I'm thinking of things like gardening, or woodworking, fly fiishing, bikes, working on cars? There are many others, of course. Are you that guy who says that it's a total waste of time to change the oil every 1000 miles on classic Ducati? The gardener who doesn't believe in amending soils with compost in the spring before planting? Etc.?

There's more to life than just "good enough." One day I hope you get the chance to ride a board that's really well suited to both the day's conditions and to what you want to do on the snow. And I hope that its base has been really well prep'ed for you by someone who follows the kind of techs that ski racers have developed over the last few decades.
1. Some of your particular base prep actually slows the board down rather than making it faster.
2. Having been involved for many years in professional downhill events I can categorically state that most top level guys/their techs's do nothing of this sort of stuff. Note that this is not 'having zero doubt' about an opinion (as in your case) but a factual observation.

Knock yourself out with your base prep if it makes you happy, but you're not in 'diminishing returns' territory but rather in 'detrimental to performance'.
 

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Is that what you're looking for? A good enough board? Then you might enjoy a combo pow carving/board and not be frustrated by it's limitations. You should get one and enjoy riding it on pow days and on hardpack days too. But why do you want to deny that there are carving boards that carve better and pow boards that ride pow better than some kind of a "good enough" compromise board? That's the part I don't get.

Maybe if I was somewhere far away from home and had to buy or rent a board in a pinch I might wonder what was a "good enough board". Thankfully that's not the case. I think that anyone who needs a first board or wants to change out their one board that they have learned is a bad fit: you're probably looking for a "good enough" board. Makes sense. Once you get one you might want to buy a second board that is more specialized for the kind of riding you are pursuing.

Me? I am not interested in "good enough" boards. I'm looking for more purpose built stuff to add to my quiver. I thought that most people here were pretty much in the same spot I'm in and already had their "good enough" board category covered. Then again, some bros I know fall into the trap of essentially buying the same board over and over again, thereby building a large quiver of "good enough" boards that are pretty mediocre at handling a diverse range of conditions. I'm definitely trying to avoid doing that.
Misquoting me is the only way that you can carry on your losing argument? I very clearly stated that I was talking about most/the vast majority of riders.
I was equally clear that you're welcome to do something different if you want to. But that does not invalidate the point.
 

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1. Some of your particular base prep actually slows the board down rather than making it faster.
2. Having been involved for many years in professional downhill events I can categorically state that most top level guys/their techs's do nothing of this sort of stuff. Note that this is not 'having zero doubt' about an opinion (as in your case) but a factual observation.

Knock yourself out with your base prep if it makes you happy, but you're not in 'diminishing returns' territory but rather in 'detrimental to performance'.
Rather than pursue ad hominem type posts, I’m sincerely asking you for your theory on base prep. I thought you were poopooing the whole practice. Sorry if I misunderstood. Tell me what you think works best or point to a post where you did so earlier. Also please share what kinda snow you prep for.

Added: what do you think about what these bros are doing? I had them do up a carving board for me last spring. I was impressed with the results. It seemed like a lot of race bros were picking up and dropping off the skis and a few boards. Did I got the wrong impression that this kind of service was sought after? Beneficial?

https://m.jans.com/blog/nate-tomlinson/jans-hosts-the-head-world-cup-tuning-clinic-with-alex-martin-video-recap
 
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