Need tuning help

1433 Views 20 Replies 9 Participants Last post by smellysell, 6 mo ago

smellysell

Discussion Starter · 6 mo ago

I've read most of the stuff on here that I can find, and have the following tools in addition to a file, but I can't get my edges as sharp as I want? They'll peel a little fingernail off, but when compared to professionally tuned edges it's not even close.

What am I missing? What is your process? Do you recommend different guides?

Diamond Machining Technology (DMT) A-PROKIT Dia-Sharp Whetstone Sharpening Kit With Diamond Sharpening Stones https://a.co/d/dvxpL3G

Base BEAST - 1 degree Ski Base Edge Bevel Guide Tool https://a.co/d/iF9zYpA

RaceWax 89 (1) Degree Hard Aluminum Ski Side Edge Bevel File Guide https://a.co/d/74bhf09

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

dwdesign

· #2 · 6 mo ago

I personally will just pay a shop (usually $20-25) with a good, accurate edge machine like a Wintersteiger TrimJet to do 88° and 1° angles and then maintain that with multiple diamond stones and the correct bevel guides through the season(s).

While you can get really sharp edges with hand files and diamond stones, I believe the difference you feel between a shop done edge and a hand filed edge is the burr angle/direction and consistency of the edge sharpness. Think (generally) of how you sharpen a chisel or knife (with whetstone). You don't sharpen those by filing parallel along with the length of the edge (hand files/guides). A machine with a ceramic disc will throw burr angle/direction of the arc nearly perpendicular all along the length of the edge. Not sure I explained my thoughts correctly... Just my 2 cents.

toaster

· #3 · 6 mo ago

Agree with dwdesign. Pay a highly reputable shop to do it.

I also typically don't worry about my edges too much until the spring, when the snow starts off hard and icy in the mornings, and I really need them to be sharp.

thecadgod

· #4 · 6 mo ago

Right there with you man, no matter how I held the board or the tool I could never get it as sharp as the shop. Come to find out, and @dwdesign pointed out, high end shops use a dedicated machine to do it...

Craig64

· #5 · 6 mo ago (Edited)

smellysell said:
I've read most of the stuff on here that I can find, and have the following tools in addition to a file, but I can't get my edges as sharp as I want? They'll peel a little fingernail off, but when compared to professionally tuned edges it's not even close.

What am I missing? What is your process? Do you recommend different guides?

Diamond Machining Technology (DMT) A-PROKIT Dia-Sharp Whetstone Sharpening Kit With Diamond Sharpening Stones https://a.co/d/dvxpL3G

Base BEAST - 1 degree Ski Base Edge Bevel Guide Tool https://a.co/d/iF9zYpA

RaceWax 89 (1) Degree Hard Aluminum Ski Side Edge Bevel File Guide https://a.co/d/74bhf09

I'd recommend getting Diaface Moonflex diamond stones, they are more expensive but are far superior and last a long time. I've bought cheaper stones like the ones you have listed once in the past thinking it was a great deal and they are really really shit compared to pro level Moonflex. If you are on a budget I'd recommend just getting100/200/400. 800 and 1500 are superb for getting a silky mirror polish.

I've got 5 different base bevels ranging from ToKo pro series World Cup to Toko vario multi base and the best one I find and use the most is the Fk SKS. Just fits in the hand perfectly and an absolute joy to use.

Bumper Gadget Auto part Electric blue Sleeve

See less See more

justin_c

· #6 · 6 mo ago

While hand tools aren’t going to be as sharp as a quality shop machine, I have found them to be perfectly sufficient for my needs.

I prefer the single angle (non-adjustment type) guides, like the ones you listed. While I haven’t used the Racewax guides, I’m not a huge fan of the Beast base guides; they felt too flimsy and I found it annoying to hold file or stone. I much prefer the SVST base guides for this. The Beast side edge guides were great though.

I also prefer the moonflex stones compared to the DMT stones, but you should be fine using it for now. Just a thought for when you need a replacement.

One thing I would do though, is verify that the edge angle is indeed what they are indicated, just so you know that you’re making a 90 edge (1 base, 89 side = 90) and not an obtuse angle. You can test your angles by using a feeler gauge in between the guide and edge (If you have one of those laying around - .003” ~ 1 deg, .005” ~ 2deg) or by using a dry erase marker on the edge, and then use your guide + finest moon stone (600+) to see how much, if any, is removed. If only the marker closer to the base is removed, then the angle is greater than the indicated guide angle. And vice versa. If all of the marker is removed, than thats the bevel angle.

When comparing to your professionally tuned edges, do you know what angles they set it at? For example, they could be giving you an acute angle edge (ie 88 side, 1 base = 89) while you might be getting somewhere around 90 (hopefully not an obtuse angle) with your hand tools.

See less See more

smellysell

Discussion Starter · #7 · 6 mo ago

I have moonstones too. Thanks for the recommendations on the guides, I'll check them out. I never really liked the beast base one, I'll gladly replace that. The side one I like, it's 89*.

BrighamR

· #8 · 6 mo ago

Do you guys find yourselves needing to stress about having edges this sharp in general? (“Trim my fingernail“ sharp?) No criticism, just curious.

smellysell

Discussion Starter · #9 · 6 mo ago

XzoltronX said:
Do you guys find yourselves needing to stress about having edges this sharp in general? (“Trim my fingernail“ sharp?) No criticism, just curious.

Not really, just figure if I'm doing it, might as well do it right. I generally ride in decent conditions, no true ice here really. What were call icy, most would call packed powder I think.

Also, not saying I want to be able to trim my nails with them, one of the tests people recommend to check their sharpness is if it will scrap some fingernail off.

smellysell

Discussion Starter · #10 · 6 mo ago (Edited)

Craig64 said:
I'd recommend getting Diaface Moonflex diamond stones, they are more expensive but are far superior and last a long time. I've bought cheaper stones like the ones you have listed once in the past thinking it was a great deal and they are really really shit compared to pro level Moonflex. If you are on a budget I'd recommend just getting100/200/400. 800 and 1500 are superb for getting a silky mirror polish.

I've got 5 different base bevels ranging from ToKo pro series World Cup to Toko vario multi base and the best one I find and use the most is the Fk SKS. Just fits in the hand perfectly and an absolute joy to use.

View attachment 165067

This one, right?

FK/SKS Vario Base Beveling File Guide https://a.co/d/gqq8WB9

Which grit moonflexes do you use? Wet or dry? How many passes?

smellysell

Discussion Starter · #11 · 6 mo ago

smellysell said:
This one, right?

FK/SKS Vario Base Beveling File Guide Amazon.com

Which grit moonflexes do you use? Wet or dry? How many passes?

dwdesign

· #12 · 6 mo ago

You should always use the diamond stones lubed.

Reactions: 1

Craig64

· #13 · 6 mo ago

smellysell said:
@Craig64

100 to 1500 on my own or new ski/snowboards and generally 100 to 800. 1500 is really just the mirror polish. I always use water on side and base dipping into an empty container and then running down the edges. The stones last for ages if you use lubrication, this is a must if you are paying for the Moonflex stones. I hate magnatraction as it cuts into the ends of 100mm stones when doing side edge. doing the base with the Fk-SKS is no issue. I use 70mm on the base and 100mm on the side edge. Only need a couple of passes with each grade. I do a few old board rusty revivals that have been sitting in the garage for ages and haven't been ridden. They come up pretty good.

I just grabbed a ToKo side edge World Cup on BF sales and just waiting for delivery so this is what I will use in future. As the customers are riding in Australian conditions people often crash into shit a lot which requires a bit of work to address. Hoping the ToKo side edge World Cup will make this quicker. I'll do a review once I use it a few times.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

smellysell

Discussion Starter · #14 · 6 mo ago

Craig64 said:
100 to 1500 on my own or new ski/snowboards and generally 100 to 800. 1500 is really just the mirror polish. I always use water on side and base dipping into an empty container and then running down the edges. The stones last for ages if you use lubrication, this is a must if you are paying for the Moonflex stones. I hate magnatraction as it cuts into the ends of 100mm stones when doing side edge. doing the base with the Fk-SKS is no issue. I use 70mm on the base and 100mm on the side edge. Only need a couple of passes with each grade. I do a few old board rusty revivals that have been sitting in the garage for ages and haven't been ridden. They come up pretty good.

I just grabbed a ToKo side edge World Cup on BF sales and just waiting for delivery so this is what I will use in future. As the customers are riding in Australian conditions people often crash into shit a lot which requires a bit of work to address. Hoping the ToKo side edge World Cup will make this quicker. I'll do a review once I use it a few times.

Thanks, appreciate it!

smellysell

Discussion Starter · #15 · 6 mo ago

Craig64 said:
100 to 1500 on my own or new ski/snowboards and generally 100 to 800. 1500 is really just the mirror polish. I always use water on side and base dipping into an empty container and then running down the edges. The stones last for ages if you use lubrication, this is a must if you are paying for the Moonflex stones. I hate magnatraction as it cuts into the ends of 100mm stones when doing side edge. doing the base with the Fk-SKS is no issue. I use 70mm on the base and 100mm on the side edge. Only need a couple of passes with each grade. I do a few old board rusty revivals that have been sitting in the garage for ages and haven't been ridden. They come up pretty good.

I just grabbed a ToKo side edge World Cup on BF sales and just waiting for delivery so this is what I will use in future. As the customers are riding in Australian conditions people often crash into shit a lot which requires a bit of work to address. Hoping the ToKo side edge World Cup will make this quicker. I'll do a review once I use it a few times.

Got the SKS base tool today, feels about 1000x more solid than the beast one, excited to give it a go.

Onto the next topic...

What do you all use for angles on the base and edge? Whatever the manufacturer set out reset them to your preference?

Reactions: 1

Phedder

· #16 · 6 mo ago

smellysell said:
What do you all use for angles on the base and edge? Whatever the manufacturer set out reset them to your preference?

I'm cheating with a Trim 71 machine, but I tend to run a 1.5 (88.5) bevel on the base and 2.5 (87.5) bevel on the side edge now. In spring I changed that to a 2 (88) for both, having a little more base bevel puts me more at ease when I'm more likely to be riding rails and heavier snow.

Reactions: 1

smellysell

Discussion Starter · #17 · 6 mo ago

Phedder said:
having a little more base bevel puts me more at ease when I'm more likely to be riding rails and heavier snow.

Can you elaborate on that, specifically the heavier snow part? This is all pretty new to me, so trying to understand it all.

Phedder

· #18 · 6 mo ago

smellysell said:
Can you elaborate on that, specifically the heavier snow part? This is all pretty new to me, so trying to understand it all.

Snow here is typically very light and dry, so it doesn't have much 'umph' behind it to catch an edge on it that makes sense? I don't really catch edges ever, but feel the occasional 'bobble' or quick grab from the snow that's easy to correct or push through. In the spring when it's wetter and heavier, the snow has more mass behind it so more 'umph' if you put an edge wrong.

Basically I feel like spring snow is catchier snow, so that little extra base bevel gives a greater margin of error.

Reactions: 1

smellysell

Discussion Starter · #19 · 6 mo ago

Phedder said:
Snow here is typically very light and dry, so it doesn't have much 'umph' behind it to catch an edge on it that makes sense? I don't really catch edges ever, but feel the occasional 'bobble' or quick grab from the snow that's easy to correct or push through. In the spring when it's wetter and heavier, the snow has more mass behind it so more 'umph' if you put an edge wrong.

Basically I feel like spring snow is catchier snow, so that little extra base bevel gives a greater margin of error.

Makes sense, thanks!

I've only got an 89* side edge guide, so think I'll crank up the base edge a little.

Myoko

· #20 · 6 mo ago

I've never really worried about edges but I am now 100% going to blame that for not being amazing at carving. Off to the shop I go as doing the edges seems hard yards and I would stuff it up for sure.

1 - 20 of 21 Posts