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Discussion Starter #1
the Cartels just never feel right to me and the top cap always rides up.

to give you perspective, i ride L Cartels and a size 10.5 Burton Imperial boot.

if i was to get rid of the Cartels in favor of the Union Force, would that be an upgrade and if so, what size should i go with?

thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
i probably should have gone over some more details.

i ride a 159 NS West and all i do is groomers and glades. absolutely no park. sometimes i'll hit some natural features if there are any to be had.

thx.
 

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You maybe should have gone Medium. I have zero issues with my M 2014 Cartels, and have used them with size 10 Rulers, Ions, and K2 T1s which have a very bulky and smooth rounded toe box. The small ribbing on the imperials should give them something to hold onto over the toe.
 
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the Cartels just never feel right to me and the top cap always rides up.

to give you perspective, i ride L Cartels and a size 10.5 Burton Imperial boot.

if i was to get rid of the Cartels in favor of the Union Force, would that be an upgrade and if so, what size should i go with?

thanks.
What's an upgrade?
If you dont like em... anything you DO like is an upgrade.

Union you're probably M/L with those boots.

If you cant keep the toe cap on with Cartels.... maybe look into Flow non-hybrid stuff :)
 

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They should be a similar binding, forces might have a bit stiffer high back. Shame the Cartels don't work for you they are a real solid binding.
 

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You maybe should have gone Medium. I have zero issues with my M 2014 Cartels, and have used them with size 10 Rulers, Ions, and K2 T1s which have a very bulky and smooth rounded toe box. The small ribbing on the imperials should give them something to hold onto over the toe.
+1 Burton M bindings fit Burton boots perfectly size 8-11.
 

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You 100% should be in a medium Burton in a 10.5. Especially a Burton Imperial, which has shrinkage down to full foot size smaller. Burton's binding size chart is 10+, but that's to accommodate companies that have significantly larger shell sizes for their boots (DC comes to mind).

That said, Force isn't an "upgrade" over the Cartel. Just a different ride that may or may not suit your preferences. Burlier feeling in the baseplate, less support from the highback (at least the old highback, not sure about the new one), adjustable heelcup. You lose some other adjustments, like the ability to move your ankle strap position. Ratchets aren't quite as high quality as Burtons. Not sure how the straps differ now, but years ago the Force ankle strap was much more supportive than the Cartel's.
 

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Force or perhaps the new Atlas. Either way I find Unions quicker edge to edge and a little bit more responsive so yes that would be an upgrade.

As everyone said, I think you should have been in medium cartels and not the large ones. If you go with Union get the M/L
 
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