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The pros are often riding a customized board (e.g. a stiffer flex). So you’re buying a different board than they actually ride.
Mark is open about it:
Yeah, I remember a Burton rep stating openly that Danny Davis was actually riding a CustomX with the Freethinker artwork instead of his actual pro-model at the US Open.
I don't see a problem with that. If a sig board was actually identical and as stiff as the boards the pro ride, they wouldn't sell almost at all since the target consumers aren't pros, except for a very few, people of that caliber are sponsored and ride what they get...
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
1. Never gotten paid and don't keep the products I review. So let's make that clear.
2. If a brand makes no advertised changes to a product, I can only assume it will ride just as good/bad as it did the last time I rode it. It is impossible to ride every single board, every single year. So if we aren't told it changed, then it maintains it's last ridden experience. Pretty simple. Sorry that's hard to understand, hope this helps.
I think your body of work speaks for itself, meaning nobody should really doubt you Kevin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
I also wanna say that while this may be a "mistep" in some eyes by Nidecker, don't punish them. They're working hard to break into the US, and deserve it. Their shit rips and I back most of what they make. Except the Smoke, that thing sucks, also not actually a fan of the Tracer, which surprised me. The Bros have been doing good things from what I have been told with the brands they've been acquiring. There are some bummers, like getting rid of the Flow board line as the Era, Solitude, and Whiteout were really damn good, but things happen.
Exactly, hence why I urge them to change their way before they make to much negative blowback.
I prefer The Nidecker Group brands to most, and feel they do not need 'used car salesman tactics'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
RIP Mat Guf
Don't know the man, so can't speak on him as a person.
Was just using the way he used to pitch for The H-use, as an example of spewing out promos but pretending it was honest reviews. If anyone would break down and analyse his bulk of old 'reviews' I am sure you could find proof of him actually giving all brands and models a thumbs up, albeit at different times.
Go have a look at for example his 'review' of the Salomon HiFi Boot, and if the way he pilots the pro-rider will not make you cringe... well, then you and I are just on opposite sides of the spectrum in this matter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
1: Getting free product to test to gain content that you can sell is a form of payment.
2: Not getting free content so making up your own negative content and presenting it as if you are informed on it.... arguably worse and kind of blackmail/extortion etc.

Again the only difference here is that they didn't hide it was a paid ad, but also didn't put the physical asterisk stating it in the video. There are no unpaid unbiased free product reviews from companies/websites/etc. They are all just as paid for as this.
Getting paid is not the issue here... it's the difference of being honest or lying.
If Nivek told us that every new board/binding/boot he tried was the very best... his favorite... then you would have an argument here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
This is such a huge problem on all the big social media platforms. How s


You seem to be blaming Nidecker, but it's Kevin at SPC who is publishing videos without stating he is sponsored by them. YouTube and the other social media platforms don't seem to care very much either. It's a huge problem that is happening all the time
I'm not sure 'blame' is the correct word here, but as The Nidecker Group is the entity paying Sn-wboardProCamp... I am adressing them to look into changing their ways.
Hopefully Kevin will also have a think on this, and maybe change his method. With his extended platform, he could do a lot of good for snowboarding...
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Exactly. Companies give away product, loan product, etc all the time for reviews. When a reviewer presents a less than honest portrayal of it that's gonna make the reviewer look bad not the company. The only thing Nidecker really may have done wrong is not vet the reviewer but outside of this it's more a problem with reviewers.

As i've been saying, product reviewers are the real issue. They're all doing it for a paycheck and thus you will never have a real unbiased reviewer, we have the proof in this thread.
I think that the peopl holding the money, can make the necessary changes.
If TNG tells Kevin to change up or he will not get paid, what would happen?
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Yeah, I remember a Burton rep stating openly that Danny Davis was actually riding a CustomX with the Freethinker artwork instead of his actual pro-model at the US Open.
I don't see a problem with that. If a sig board was actually identical and as stiff as the boards the pro ride, they wouldn't sell almost at all since the target consumers aren't pros, except for a very few, people of that caliber are sponsored and ride what they get...
This issue is also very interesting... I agree we are experiencing an 'arms race' much like the one in mobile phone sales; i.e. the snowboard brands incorporate and market tons of high tech materials and innovations in new product - leaving stuff that actually are less fun for the average rider. But since we automatically want what's 'the best', we keep buying more expensive stuff above our riding level and in the end have a bit less fun.
 

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Getting paid is not the issue here... it's the difference of being honest or lying.
If Nivek told us that every new board/binding/boot he tried was the very best... his favorite... then you would have an argument here.
I think this is the fundament on what a vast majority of things happens in our society. And from my point of view there is a big fight that we need to win and that is the fight of being honest and not lying to yourself. But that needs a certain character to get into this fight. Because if you loose this fight in all the other aspects of your life, it will get very easy to "lie" but it needs some skils, and the society will teach you how to lie the best...and not beeing caught..that what diplomacy is.
So yes it more about the people not about the products.
But take the fight from inside if you want to win...it is too late to take it from the outsie.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

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Yeah, I remember a Burton rep stating openly that Danny Davis was actually riding a CustomX with the Freethinker artwork instead of his actual pro-model at the US Open.
I don't see a problem with that. If a sig board was actually identical and as stiff as the boards the pro ride, they wouldn't sell almost at all since the target consumers aren't pros, except for a very few, people of that caliber are sponsored and ride what they get...
I fully agree, we don’t ride like them. My point was about ‚the truth’ from the marketing by the pros.
The marketing is targeted at what is the most beneficial for the company and the revenue.
That’s why Terje has been recently dropped by Burton or Nico by Mervin before. They’ve calculated that they can make more money assigning these resources to someone else. That’s the harsh truth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #73 ·
I think this is the fundament on what a vast majority of things happens in our society. And from my point of view there is a big fight that we need to win and that is the fight of being honest and not lying to yourself. But that needs a certain character to get into this fight. Because if you loose this fight in all the other aspects of your life, it will get very easy to "lie" but it needs some skils, and the society will teach you how to lie the best...and not beeing caught..that what diplomacy is.
So yes it more about the people not about the products.
But take the fight from inside if you want to win...it is too late to take it from the outsie.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Any rep knows that warm feeling in the pit of his/her stomach, when a newbie comes back with a huge grin from ear-to-ear after a full day of riding in the correct boots and set-up. This is what makes new snowboarders.
Many riders unfortunately know the opposite, how a day on the hill with the buds was completely ruined by cramping feet, getting cold and wet trying to survive on the wrong sized and crappy equipment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
I fully agree, we don’t ride like them. My point was about ‚the truth’ from the marketing by the pros.
The marketing is targeted at what is the most beneficial for the company and the revenue.
That’s why Terje has been recently dropped by Burton or Nico by Mervin before. They’ve calculated that they can make more money assigning these resources to someone else. That’s the harsh truth.
We are back to the beginning here... I claim that the way Sno-boardProCamp 'market' is not the most beneficial to the company, but will actually create negative backlash. You are free to disagree, but present no proof to your argument.
Burton did not drop Terje because of Kev-n at Snowboa-dProCamp, neither did Burton - nor Mervin - when they dropped Nicolas Müller; so this is a moot point.
Or are you really saying that the big snowboard companies need to drop older pro-riders, to instead let one guy make 'reviews' where he pretends to use/like certain equipment? Is this the lone future successful business model?
 

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Thing is, Nidecker is using social media marketing to get word-of-mouth and recognition. Not lofty, intricately crafted engagement campaigns. They aren't at that stage yet, at least not in North America. Once they establish a baseline, it's a good bet that they will look to improve the quality of their engagements. So for now, I can cut Nidecker some slack...

But I can't give SPC any because there is no excuse for not being transparent. For a channel with 'Pro' in it's name, it sure isn't acting like one. Mention if the content contains paid promotion. Put the sponsorship in writing in the video description. Not doing so makes the channel look like a product placement exercise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
Thing is, Nidecker is using social media marketing to get word-of-mouth and recognition. Not lofty, intricately crafted engagement campaigns. They aren't at that stage yet, at least not in North America. Once they establish a baseline, it's a good bet that they will look to improve the quality of their engagements. So for now, I can cut Nidecker some slack...

But I can't give SPC any because there is no excuse for not being transparent. For a channel with 'Pro' in it's name, it sure isn't acting like one. Mention if the content contains paid promotion. Put the sponsorship in writing in the video description. Not doing so makes the channel look like a product placement exercise.
Agree there is nothing wrong with promos per se, if they don't pretend to be reviews; even though I think promos could stay on the brands own channels and they could use Yo-Tube in a more creative manner.
 

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We are back to the beginning here... I claim that the way Sno-boardProCamp 'market' is not the most beneficial to the company, but will actually create negative backlash. You are free to disagree, but present no proof to your argument.
Burton did not drop Terje because of Kev-n at Snowboa-dProCamp, neither did Burton - nor Mervin - when they dropped Nicolas Müller; so this is a moot point.
Or are you really saying that the big snowboard companies need to drop older pro-riders, to instead let one guy make 'reviews' where he pretends to use/like certain equipment? Is this the lone future successful business model?
We are back to the message I quoted about ‘the truth’ you get from the sponsored riders.
Did I say they dropped them for a vlogger?
You are also free to disagree but you neither have a proof if it’s gonna be a drop in $$ for Nidecker.

SPC is a vlog, not a review channel.
He’s got a big fanbase, how many around bought or not I have no idea. For sure their streams are boring for me and I don’t watch anything there apart from some edits like the park laps with some pros in Zermatt. So still a sub but a very inactive one. On the other hand every friend (12 or so) I’ve brought to this sport so far has started with his channel and they watched it religioulsy. There are reasons he is appealing to newbs. I point them to other channels they can benefit from later on. They do get the initial stoke there at SPC. That’s how newbies behave. They don’t lurk here for the advice, don’t do their own research of the boards, don’t buy a shitton of gear to test it themselves. That’s the best review. I care about the product i get for my own money, not if this is a ski company like Salomon, Adidas boots or if someone is friends or enemies with a particular brand.

If you follow the reviews and are more into gear whoring, you can easily find who is biased towards what. You don’t know if it’s a paycheck, giveaways, a good relationship with the marketing managers, a good cooperation or a clash they had before.

All I’ve said is every company wants to make money.
Nidecker has apparently decided that sponsoring some vlogger’s trips and gear will increase their revenue. Time will tell if that way was a good (read financially beneficial) step for them. Everyone has their own right how to react to this. Some will boycott the company, some like me don’t give a shit that they’ve added a vlogger who isn’t a reliable source for me anyway and some will flock to the shops to get a Nidecker SPC model.

Avran has cooperated with Marhar and got his pro model he designed.

Nivek has worked with Nidecker and Arbor:

Is there a bias there? Who knows, right? But it’s nothing unusual and as long as the product is solid it’s fine.

Kevin from SPC will have ‘his own’ model from Nidecker. I’m sure it will be a good board cos it will be designed by the right people.

Would I want a vlogger to design a board for me? No. He has no technical knowledge Avran or Nivek have. But Kevin from the SPC doesn’t claim the reviewer status that TJ has. And while TJ is clearly sponsored by Union I find his recent reviews on point with the limited experience I’ve managed to gather riding 35 ++ top 5/10 and what not boards from various reviewers that me and my gear whoring friends simply bought with our own money.

Personally I don’t give a shit about some wars for influence (thus money) between the reviewers/snowboard channels. I would if they pushed a mediocre product but that’s not gonna be the case with Nidecker.

I believe it would be better if everyone focused on developing their own content to fit the needs of a broad audience and wipe out the competition with how the real life experience you get relates to what they say.

Hate the game, not the player. They are making their living off snowboarding so they have to play it with various strategies unfortunately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
We are back to the message I quoted about ‘the truth’ you get from the sponsored riders.
Did I say they dropped them for a vlogger?
You are also free to disagree but you neither have a proof if it’s gonna be a drop in $$ for Nidecker.

SPC is a vlog, not a review channel.
He’s got a big fanbase, how many around bought or not I have no idea. For sure their streams are boring for me and I don’t watch anything there apart from some edits like the park laps with some pros in Zermatt. So still a sub but a very inactive one. On the other hand every friend (12 or so) I’ve brought to this sport so far has started with his channel and they watched it religioulsy. There are reasons he is appealing to newbs. I point them to other channels they can benefit from later on. They do get the initial stoke there at SPC. That’s how newbies behave. They don’t lurk here for the advice, don’t do their own research of the boards, don’t buy a shitton of gear to test it themselves. That’s the best review. I care about the product i get for my own money, not if this is a ski company like Salomon, Adidas boots or if someone is friends or enemies with a particular brand.

If you follow the reviews and are more into gear whoring, you can easily find who is biased towards what. You don’t know if it’s a paycheck, giveaways, a good relationship with the marketing managers, a good cooperation or a clash they had before.

All I’ve said is every company wants to make money.
Nidecker has apparently decided that sponsoring some vlogger’s trips and gear will increase their revenue. Time will tell if that way was a good (read financially beneficial) step for them. Everyone has their own right how to react to this. Some will boycott the company, some like me don’t give a shit that they’ve added a vlogger who isn’t a reliable source for me anyway and some will flock to the shops to get a Nidecker SPC model.

Avran has cooperated with Marhar and got his pro model he designed.

Nivek has worked with Nidecker and Arbor:

Is there a bias there? Who knows, right? But it’s nothing unusual and as long as the product is solid it’s fine.

Kevin from SPC will have ‘his own’ model from Nidecker. I’m sure it will be a good board cos it will be designed by the right people.

Would I want a vlogger to design a board for me? No. He has no technical knowledge Avran or Nivek have. But Kevin from the SPC doesn’t claim the reviewer status that TJ has. And while TJ is clearly sponsored by Union I find his recent reviews on point with the limited experience I’ve managed to gather riding 35 ++ top 5/10 and what not boards from various reviewers that me and my gear whoring friends simply bought with our own money.

Personally I don’t give a shit about some wars for influence (thus money) between the reviewers/snowboard channels. I would if they pushed a mediocre product but that’s not gonna be the case with Nidecker.

I believe it would be better if everyone focused on developing their own content to fit the needs of a broad audience and wipe out the competition with how the real life experience you get relates to what they say.

Hate the game, not the player. They are making their living off snowboarding so they have to play it with various strategies unfortunately.
Let's break down what you wrote here together:
Yes, you stated Terje and Nico was dropped, and to instead use a vlogger as it is just the way it is.
If "every friend (12 or so) I’ve brought to this sport so far has started with his channel and they watched it religioulsy", would they not benefit from hearing the truth regarding equipment... or do you mean the stoke would then be less?
You point out Avr-n and H-b have designed/worked with brands, but can you please show us the clips of when they said someone should buy that exact equipment as it's the best / their favorite?
You talk about a vlogger designing a board, but I fail to see where this lands in my open letter?
You say you personally do not give a shit unless the product is mediocre, meaning you can tell the same 12 friends to go buy those exact Nidecker boots... as the quality is fine?
Where's the hate? Do you mean I hate the brands (when I say I prefer them) or that I must hate the player (an individual I do not know personally), just to voice my opinion?

When you finish with "They are making their living off snowboarding so they have to play it with various strategies unfortunately"... I wonder why "unfortunate"... what these "various strategies" must be, what dictates which strategy to use... and why telling lies have to be superior to telling the truth?
I have given examples of why I think the 'used-car-salesman' will not work in the long game, but here it comes again:
If you fool a new rider into buying the wrong boots, resulting with him/her having a crap day on the hill... it will not make them avid snowboarders that want to invest more money in this sport/culture!
You say I am wrong, which then means: yes, you should / have to fool new riders into buying the wrong equipment, or else you will not make $$

Don't mistake this discussion as being against you as a person, I just don't find any valid arguments in your text adressing the points of this open letter.
 

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Let's break down what you wrote here together:
Yes, you stated Terje and Nico was dropped, and to instead use a vlogger as it is just the way it is.
If "every friend (12 or so) I’ve brought to this sport so far has started with his channel and they watched it religioulsy", would they not benefit from hearing the truth regarding equipment... or do you mean the stoke would then be less?
You point out Avr-n and H-b have designed/worked with brands, but can you please show us the clips of when they said someone should buy that exact equipment as it's the best / their favorite?
You talk about a vlogger designing a board, but I fail to see where this lands in my open letter?
You say you personally do not give a shit unless the product is mediocre, meaning you can tell the same 12 friends to go buy those exact Nidecker boots... as the quality is fine?
Where's the hate? Do you mean I hate the brands (when I say I prefer them) or that I must hate the player (an individual I do not know personally), just to voice my opinion?

When you finish with "They are making their living off snowboarding so they have to play it with various strategies unfortunately"... I wonder why "unfortunate"... what these "various strategies" must be, what dictates which strategy to use... and why telling lies have to be superior to telling the truth?
I have given examples of why I think the 'used-car-salesman' will not work in the long game, but here it comes again:
If you fool a new rider into buying the wrong boots, resulting with him/her having a crap day on the hill... it will not make them avid snowboarders that want to invest more money in this sport/culture!
You say I am wrong, which then means: yes, you should / have to fool new riders into buying the wrong equipment, or else you will not make $$

Don't mistake this discussion as being against you as a person, I just don't find any valid arguments in your text adressing the points of this open letter.
So what your wishing for is someone to independently and professionally Review Snowboards/Outerwear etc that has absolutely zero affiliation with any Brands, is not paid for by any Brands, is able to somehow independently source all the latest snowboards/outerwear without any sponsorship assistance from any Brands, create and finance a professional review format with Video by himself/with the assistance of a camera operator whilst somehow maintaining a living and paying the bills to enable the ability to do all of this.
 

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So what your wishing for is someone to independently and professionally Review Snowboards/Outerwear etc that has absolutely zero affiliation with any Brands, is not paid for by any Brands, is able to somehow independently source all the latest snowboards/outerwear without any sponsorship assistance from any Brands, create and finance a professional review format with Video by himself/with the assistance of a camera operator whilst somehow maintaining a living and paying the bills to enable the ability to do all of this.
Wait, are you talking about yourself, Craig? :ROFLMAO:

Seriously tho, this is a huge grey area in marketing and I wish the channels emplyed a more solid transparency policy. That solves most issues, real or perceived.
 
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