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I know this question has been asked before, but here it is again. I've been snowboarding for over 20 years in buffalo ny on mostly hardpack consisting of crud, ice, and artificial snow. I almost never go in the park mainly because of park rats sitting and standing everywhere, but if its relatively empty i'll hit some table tops and that's about it. I mostly like to just bomb and carve along the edges of the trails looking for any powder and where there wont be anyone in my way. So..

I'm looking at a 154 lib tech trs or 154 NS proto hd? I'm really indecisive, done all my homework on each board..just never rode any..so im lookin for as many opinions as possible. 5'9'' 170lbs
THANKS
 

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2 overpriced bandwagon decks (disclaimer I own/love a proto)

Well if you are going to buy a $600 board, you may as well get the one that is the most worth it, which is going to be the Proto hands down. You get better durability (ie. carbonium topsheet, fully wrapped edges), better warranty(3yr vs 1), an infinitely better base (5k+ sintered graphite impregnated (probably one of the fastest bases in the industry) vs dogshit plastic beans or whatever the fuck they claim in in their cheap ass non sintered bases at mervin).

Of course I personally am going to pick NS hands down, and you've chosen two decks which are going to garner alot of fanboyism where everyone is going to have a strong opinion one way or the other. It is fair to say that this site is rife with blinded NS and Mervin fanbois.

Meaning you should look at only 2 things: stats and experience. Demo both, if you like the TRS better, get it. If you can't demo them, the Proto owns the stats. If you pick the TRS it will be cuz you got convinced by the graphics or that you NEED magnetraction (you don't).

For your riding style I would say get a 156 Heritage, tbh.
 

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I know this question has been asked before, but here it is again. I've been snowboarding for over 20 years in buffalo ny on mostly hardpack consisting of crud, ice, and artificial snow. I almost never go in the park mainly because of park rats sitting and standing everywhere, but if its relatively empty i'll hit some table tops and that's about it. I mostly like to just bomb and carve along the edges of the trails looking for any powder and where there wont be anyone in my way. So..

I'm looking at a 154 lib tech trs or 154 NS proto hd? I'm really indecisive, done all my homework on each board..just never rode any..so im lookin for as many opinions as possible. 5'9'' 170lbs
THANKS
Yeah you sure you need an all mountain freestyle board? Maybe something beefier if you are bombing and carving.
 

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no.

Hm, not consistent with my experience. I own both a couple of NS boards and Lib-tech and:
  • Magnetraction is the real deal. Edge hold is clearly better than with anything else I have ever ridden (including my Never Summer boards) and there seem to be no drawbacks.
  • Carbonium top sheet looks cool but has no practical benefits.
  • Same for fully-wrapped edges. Both boards have plastic inserts at the tips anyway.
  • Bases perform the same. No noticeable difference whatsoever. Both the 'TNT' and the 'graphite impregnated' are marketing bullshit AFAIAC.
True on the warranty, though.

As far as I can tell the main difference is the rocker profile: There seems to be a lot more rocker in my NS boards. Neither good nor bad, just different.
-he got 20 years without magnetraction on the ice coast. I maintain he does not need it. Vario grip works well, is much more subliminal and will be an improvement for him anyway.
-Carbonium topsheets are significantly more durable than the beans crap they put on top of a lib.
-sorry but non-sintered bases are fucking slow by comparison, and the number rating in sintered is real, which is why across brands you see a range from like 4-7k sintered. Sintered bases actually SOAK up wax. For extruded bases the wax vitually sits there on the surface until it gets wiped off (1-3 runs).

I don't care one way or the other which board he gets, but after my experience with sintered vs extruded bases in particular, I would be fucking pissed if someone told me they are the same thing on 2 boards with comparable prices. Expensive boards but the Proto has alot in it to justify the price, just don't see that on the TRS.
 

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-he got 20 years without magnetraction on the ice coast. I maintain he does not need it. Vario grip works well, is much more subliminal and will be an improvement for him anyway.
Sounds about right. Magne is better than Variogrip, but either is much better than nothing.

-Carbonium topsheets are significantly more durable than the beans crap they put on top of a lib.
Nonsense, they just wear in different ways. In any case, it is just cosmetic. BTW, only the new TRX BTX has the beans topsheet.

-sorry but non-sintered bases are fucking slow by comparison, and the number rating in sintered is real, which is why across brands you see a range from like 4-7k sintered. Sintered bases actually SOAK up wax. For extruded bases the wax vitually sits there on the surface until it gets wiped off (1-3 runs).
Sorry, that is mostly factually wrong. No base soaks up wax. Let me repeat that because it is just such a common but incorrect statement: There no snowboard bases -sintered or extruded- that soak up wax. Maybe if you have base made from sponge...
Sintered vs. extruded is one of the great strawmen of snowboard technology. It makes fuck all of a difference for recreational riders.
 

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Sounds about right. Magne is better than Variogrip, but either is much better than nothing.


Nonsense, they just wear in different ways. In any case, it is just cosmetic.


Sorry, that is mostly factually wrong. No base soaks up wax. Let me repeat that because it is just such a common but incorrect statement: There no snowboard bases -sintered or extruded- that soak up wax. Maybe if you have base made from sponge...
Sintered vs. extruded is one of the great strawmen of snowboard technology. It makes fuck all of a difference for recreational riders.
I'll agree with cosmetic on the topsheets.

Not sure where u guys get the info on bases, or if you have ever waxed a board before. I have an extruded base on my Evil Twin and sintered on my Proto, and they perform and hold wax exactly as I have described. The ET is significantly slower, the wax sits on the surface and wipes right off. HKTRDR: sounds like you are suggesting that there is no benefits from hotwaxing, and that you could get the same effects from rub-on(which I would believe for extruded as waxing them is almost pointless)? Your assertion that NO bases soak up wax suggests this. I enjoy the bennies of a hotwax.

Not sure who recreational riders include, but sure someone who spends a couple days a year on the hill is not going to notice. An ignorant audience doesn't have any effect on the facts.

I'm not one to get hung up on minor details, the difference between extruded and sintered is an important selling point to me based on experience, one I would only ignore for a park/urban deck.
 

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I'll agree with cosmetic on the topsheets.

Not sure where u guys get the info on bases, or if you have ever waxed a board before. I have an extruded base on my Evil Twin and sintered on my Proto, and they perform and hold wax exactly as I have described. The ET is significantly slower, the wax sits on the surface and wipes right off. HKTRDR: sounds like you are suggesting that there is no benefits from hotwaxing, and that you could get the same effects from rub-on? Your assertion that NO bases soak up wax suggests this. I enjoy the bennies of a hotwax.

Not sure who recreational riders include, but sure someone who spends a couple days a year on the hill is not going to notice. An ignorant audience doesn't have any effect on the facts.
It is true that a hotwax has significant benefits - most importantly about half an hour worth of quiet time on average. Effect is even better with a couple of beers and some good tunes.
However, when it comes to riding 95% of people could not tell the difference (other than the placebo/psychosomatic effect).
Similar for sintered vs. extruded - might make a difference for the professional BTX racers. For everybody else - meh...

Now, nowt all sintered bases or all extruded bases are created the same (although the vast majority of snowboard manufacturers source their base materials from ultimately the same sources). Frankly the way the bases are produced probably makes a bigger difference - cut and pieced together (with the associated slightly uneven transitions, like on NS) or dyed (like Lib-tech).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the replys.

Although like I said I've been boardin for over 20 years, but I doubt I would be able to tell the difference between different bases - not to deny its importance.
Goin back to the boards...since hardpack is the majority of what's available here in the ice coast, I'm thinking now that the proto or trs might be too playful?? If someone rides hardpack, crud, and ice a majority of the time...what benefits does the rocker provide..if any? Especially from someone who doesn't really go in the park at all. All my experience is on camber.

I'm taking a closer look at the Lib's Hot Knife? And for any pro Libber's...is there any difference between last years hot knife model vs. 2014??

THANKS AGAIN!
 

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Thanks for the replys.

Although like I said I've been boardin for over 20 years, but I doubt I would be able to tell the difference between different bases - not to deny its importance.
Goin back to the boards...since hardpack is the majority of what's available here in the ice coast, I'm thinking now that the proto or trs might be too playful?? If someone rides hardpack, crud, and ice a majority of the time...what benefits does the rocker provide..if any? Especially from someone who doesn't really go in the park at all. All my experience is on camber.

I'm taking a closer look at the Lib's Hot Knife? And for any pro Libber's...is there any difference between last years model vs. 2014??

THANKS AGAIN!
Hence my suggestion of the Heritage 156.
 

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It is true that a hotwax has significant benefits - most importantly about half an hour worth of quiet time on average. Effect is even better with a couple of beers and some good tunes.
However, when it comes to riding 95% of people could not tell the difference (other than the placebo/psychosomatic effect).
Similar for sintered vs. extruded - might make a difference for the professional BTX racers. For everybody else - meh...

Now, nowt all sintered bases or all extruded bases are created the same (although the vast majority of snowboard manufacturers source their base materials from ultimately the same sources). Frankly the way the bases are produced probably makes a bigger difference - cut and pieced together (with the associated slightly uneven transitions, like on NS) or dyed (like Lib-tech).
On good snow with a good slope I agree with you. But on wet snow, and/or flatter tracks it makes a huge difference. While in Mammoth last spring to traverse one area (Chair 9 to Eagle Lodge) you unbuckled at the bottom of a run and had to walk slightly up a side area. After that it's really flat. And you had to start from zero. Day one with a nice wax I just buckled up, stood up and I was going. Day 2 I was stuck. Same temps/conditions, same run. I had to cheat and go up a small hill to gain the speed.

Wet snow is like Velcro to a base.
 

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Couple points:

Carbonium topsheets are definitely, absolutely more durable. One look at my Proto vs. my T. Rice will tell anyone that. The Proto looks new and I have ridden it more AND the T. Rice sees more powder and no park.

My T. rice has more rocker than my Proto. Not sure how the TRS compares, but they are both C2.

If the snow is any kind of wet, waxing makes a huge difference. Not necessary for cold, dry groomer days, but absolutely worth it on wet/warm/powder days.

I can't tell the difference in edge hold between magnatraction and vario IF both edges are somewhat sharp. After a season of riding on each board with no edge tuning, the magnetraction holds better.

Fully wrapped edges prevent the tip of the board from delaminating. Happened with my original T. Rice from a few tree impacts and shoving the board into a snowbank. Never happened on my Proto with the same abuse.
 

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Different people, different experiences/opinions:
Carbonium topsheets are definitely, absolutely more durable. One look at my Proto vs. my T. Rice will tell anyone that. The Proto looks new and I have ridden it more AND the T. Rice sees more powder and no park.
And my 2012-13 Cobra looked like ass before I traded it in after 20-30 days of riding. 4 year-old Skate Banana with well over 150 days and 2 year-old Billy Goat look much better

My T. rice has more rocker than my Proto. Not sure how the TRS compares, but they are both C2.
My BG is C2 as well and has less rocker than my Cobras.

If the snow is any kind of wet, waxing makes a huge difference. Not necessary for cold, dry groomer days, but absolutely worth it on wet/warm/powder days.
Not sure ~30 mins is "a huge difference" ;)


I can't tell the difference in edge hold between magnatraction and vario IF both edges are somewhat sharp. After a season of riding on each board with no edge tuning, the magnetraction holds better.
I sure can tell the difference.

Fully wrapped edges prevent the tip of the board from delaminating.
Not really. It will just takes impacts in a different way - have the steel edge in the tip will help absorb smaller bumps, but have more permanent deformation after a major impact. But neither NS nor Mervin have a core in the tips, so it makes no real difference.
 

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If you want to ride this season give me a shout. Seems like we do the same kind of riding. Although I do ride KB a lot due to proximity to the city. Plus I have a 4 year old I am going to try at teach this year. :) But always like hitting up Holiday.

Anyways, I ride Libs because of the Magnetraction. For me, it makes a difference and I have not heard of another company with as effective of a product. Out West it probably does not make as big of an impact. But I have ridden on days where you skid across the slope like you are on a damn ice rink and not lost an edge.

Though to be fair, I have never ridden a Never Summer - would like to try one out some day. If even just to compare.

2009 TRS - MTX and camber 157
2010 TRice C2 157
2011 Lando C2 160
 

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I will chime in, I own a Heritage 159x and a Trice 157 HP.

For me, magne isnt really about edge hold, its about a safety net. When I got my Trice I naturally went to the steepest groomed shit on the mountain and layed a few carves down to test it out. I found a couple of things:

Its much harder to do a pencil line with magne, you end up with almost 3 close together lines in the snow if you look closely enough. You dont really feel the slice through the snow you do with the Heritage. What you do get is a safety net - when the board loses its edge and you get movement away from your intended direction, instead of completely slipping out it will grip again. Strange to explain, but thats what I felt.

I also didn't like the sidecut on the trice, not aggressive enough for my riding style. Heelside carves were always harder, although this was partly down to the narrower width and me being scared of cranking it over too much and booting out. You could definitely tell in tight trees though that the board doesn't turn as easily as the heritage.

Bottom line is, if your a punter who slides down the hill kicking your back foot, you will probably love the trice. I am not that person, and my rice is on craigslist right now. My heritage is the best board I have ever owned, just make sure you keep the edges razor sharp.
 

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If you don't mind me asking MGD, where do you ride? Because it sounds like I need to try a NS. Assuming a Heritage is a NS that is?
Thanks.
Im east coast in summer, Colorado in winter. It is a Neversummer.

Conditions early last winter in CO were pretty much east coast! I did 2 seasons in VT before I moved out.
 

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My buddy (long time rider) rides a T-Rice. He loves it, but out of the blue he says he feels the magne is slowing him down, compared to his regular cambered board. He doesn't lurk around snowboard message forums (although it's possible he saw it in a review) but I thought it interesting.
 
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