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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Dear Dudes and Dudettes,

Here I go at it again and this post will be way too long, but I hope you have the patience to read all of it. I had decided what board to get but it turned out it would be to expensive after all so I’ll have some more time to consider and reconsider and overthink my options before the next sale starts after Christmas.

About me:
  • Height: 187 cm/6'2"
  • Weight: ca 84 kg/185 lbs in the nude, about 200-205 all geared up
  • Boot: Nitro Team TLS 44/290/US11, no shrinkage tech
  • Feet: Left foot ca 280 mm, right foot ca 285 mm
  • Stance: Regular
  • Bindings: Burton Cartel 12/13 size L, still unused. Had Union Flite size M/L before.
  • Angles: Not decided yet. Started out with +15/-15, tried +12/-12 and +18/-9. I might go lower in angles and I’ll try positive angles too.
  • Current board: Burton Blunt 159W from 2012 (never used with my Cartels). A reflection on this board is that it feels unstable and clumsy at the same time, whatever the reasons for that might be.
  • Level: 10 days riding experience. I can (with an effort) link turns on a blue or red run but carving eludes me.
  • Style: None, see Level above. But I absolutely love side-tracking mellow groomers and finding a few inches of pow among the trees where there is some. Park is not very interesting to me, rather I think I’m going to prefer using natural features as park features - rollers, small lips and so on. Steep, straight, broad groomers are fucking boring (and scary). However chopped up piste is what I'll mostly get, unfortunately. I feel quite uncomfortable riding fast - but I might blame (a cracked rib and) my current board just a little for that. If I’m to charge hard I want something a little more stable than a Blunt underneath me.
Something to factor in is that in February I’m going to Val Thorens for a whole week of full-time instructed snowboarding with UCPA. That means that if nothing unexpected happens (knock on wood) I should have progressed to become a fairly decent intermediate snowboarder by the end of the week.


The boards I’m considering are, in approximate order of decreasing, uh, inclination for me to buy:

  1. K2 Raygun 161 (2013-2014)
  2. Rossignol Templar 158/159mw (2013-2014)
  3. Rossignol Angus 161 (2013-2014)
  4. Arbor Formula 161 (2014)
  5. Rome Tour 159 (2013-2014)
  6. Rossignol Taipan 158mw/160 (2014)
  7. Jones Mountain Twin 160/161w (2013-2014)
  8. Nitro Pyro 159 (2014)
  9. Arbor Coda 160 (2014)
Comments about the different boards then, and this is where it gets lengthy…

The K2 Raygun is no 1 on my list but my main concern about it (and the Formula and the Tour) is the extruded base. Of course I don’t want to go ballistic but I want something that is fast and stable enough to take me through flat sections with dignity. I’m also a little worried about the edge grip of the Raygun. I’ve encountered snowment a few times and that wasn’t funny on my Blunt at least.

The Rossi Templar seems like a pretty damn good board for a good price and even has a sintered base. 5S Magnetraction seems like a nice compromise, because I’m thinking perhaps it's not a good thing to get used to the feel of MT as a beginner. But I’m not sure about it being directional would be a good thing for me. Also not sure about the width - normal seems too narrow and wide too, er, wide. (Plus, it’s ugly.)

The Rossi Angus might be a too advanced board for me but it's interesting because it seems like an extremely solid and versatile board so it's still on my list. Sintered base, ok price. But again with the waist (or rather, insert) width.

The Arbor Formula is a “solid beginner board” according to several sources. But I’m thinking that perhaps I’ll outgrow it too quickly. And would it be a big enough improvement from the Blunt to justify the purchase?

The Rome Tour gets good reviews but I’m wondering… People talk about it as an All Mtn-Freestyle board but it almost seems set up like a...jib board? It also seems very soft. Too similar to my Blunt (although flat camber)? I don’t know...

The Rossi Taipan also seems like a good entry board and is apparently ok for higher level riders too. Sintered base and low price. But again with the Rossi waist widths. And it’s ugly. It has a fucking car on the topsheet. That in itself pisses me off so much I feel revulsion towards it. I hate cars.

I guess the last three boards in my list (like the Angus) aren’t really for me since they are for more advanced riders and some of them a little too expensive, but they have piqued my interest - especially the Angus and the Mountain Twin. They just seem like very, very solid All Mtn boards.

---

There. Now, please don’t suggest that I buy a Never Summer board. I’ve checked them out and dismissed them, partially because they cost an arm and a leg here in Europe, even on sale. In fact, please don’t advise me to buy any other board (model) than the ones I've listed above. Don’t make this even more difficult for me.

I told you this would be too long. Thank you for reading this far. I know I’m overthinking but I really, really want my next board purchase to be better than my first one (the Blunt).

Now, discuss.
 

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If you plan on progressing further and taking snowboarding seriously, I would spring for a more advanced board even though it may be beyond your skill level at the moment (if youc an afford it). For that reason if i had to pick from your list I would choose the rossi angus. If I may add one or two more suggestions, I would look into the K2 subculture and Turbo Dream. They are both a step up from the ray gun and have sintered bases. While costing an additional $100 to $150 depending on model and your location, they will be well worth it if you take to the sport and want a board to grow into over the next few seasons. I ride the Turbo Dream and would highly recommend it. Switching from the K2 darkstar (similar to the blunt) made me a much more confident rider and I would highly recommend the board. That is my two cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks Ryan. Yes, the question is how serious I'll get. Don't know that yet, and unfortunately unless I move I won't be able to get serious because the place I live in is just plain flat, and not cold enough for serious snow. I've been looking at the Turbo Dream but dismissed it as a too expensive and "later on" board (and for the same reasons I should dismiss the Mountain Twin and the Coda, I know). Plus, this year's model has a fucking car on it. ^^

Anyone else feel like adding their .02$?
 

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If you plan on progressing further and taking snowboarding seriously, I would spring for a more advanced board even though it may be beyond your skill level at the moment (if youc an afford it). For that reason if i had to pick from your list I would choose the rossi angus. If I may add one or two more suggestions, I would look into the K2 subculture and Turbo Dream. They are both a step up from the ray gun and have sintered bases. While costing an additional $100 to $150 depending on model and your location, they will be well worth it if you take to the sport and want a board to grow into over the next few seasons. I ride the Turbo Dream and would highly recommend it. Switching from the K2 darkstar (similar to the blunt) made me a much more confident rider and I would highly recommend the board. That is my two cents.
i too would recommend the turbo dream. my first board was a really old burton canyon 168 from early 2000's i got for cheap second hand with bindings. full camber and stiff as fuck. went to NZ where i got to demo a few boards on a demo day and one of them was the turbo dream. felt like an unbelievably amazing ride turn after turn after turn. demoed a few others but didnt feel the same and the guy was cool enough to let me take it out for the weekend.

however i was probably a little more advanced at that stage than where ur at now. i would recommend just sticking with what you've got as it is actually a great set up for you. learn to ride and read the snow a little better before jumping in too early.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
i would recommend just sticking with what you've got as it is actually a great set up for you. learn to ride and read the snow a little better before jumping in too early.
That's what I keep telling myself...but then HE starts whispering in my ear. :rolleyes: But I'm thinking that perhaps I can wait until after UCPA and THEN pull the trigger - IF the board I want still exists on sale then.

And you're saying that's a great setup? Hm. I'm really not happy about the loose feel I get, don't know if it's the V-rocker or just me. Perhaps I should tune the edges, as they come "rail ready" on the Blunt.
 

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I have riden, and have friends who currently ride Rossignol boards(Angus, Taipan, One). Dont let the price tag fool you, they are really good snowboards; I ride a few YES boards, GNU and Rome...my next will be a rossi for sure. The Templar isnt TOO directional, just a small setback which will come in handy if you progress and end up in some pow.
I haven't riden any K2 boards, so I cant comment, but as a beginner, an inexpensive board full of great tech with lots of room to progress seems like the logical step, and the Templar fits the bill. If you end up upgrading in a year or two, it will still make for an outstanding second/rock board.

Also, i cannot stress this part enough...DONT WORRY ABOUT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE! you will never see the base, and if you are on your way down the mountain, look down and say "I wish this looked better" you will crash and die.

All that said, Steez is right....thats a good set up to learn on, and with the upgrade of having Cartels on it, you will feel much more confident no doubt.
 

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Thanks Ryan. Yes, the question is how serious I'll get. Don't know that yet, and unfortunately unless I move I won't be able to get serious because the place I live in is just plain flat, and not cold enough for serious snow. I've been looking at the Turbo Dream but dismissed it as a too expensive and "later on" board (and for the same reasons I should dismiss the Mountain Twin and the Coda, I know). Plus, this year's model has a fucking car on it. ^^

Anyone else feel like adding their .02$?
fair enough, the Turbo Dream graphics have been amongst the ugliest I have seen since they started making the board, but the 2011-2012 is definitely the ugliest (the one i have!). I know it's probably different pricing over there in europe but you can pick up 2012/13 model boards on evo.com (just an example) for about 30% off. Might be worthwhile looking into last year model boards if there are any available where you are? I plan on getting this years TD after this season when it goes on sale as mine is pretty dinged up.

As much as it makes sense to stick with your current board, if you feel like it is holding you back and you are prepared to get a new one then I say why not. My biggest progressions have come in seasons where i have upgraded an old used or beginner level board, and while i may not have known much of a difference at first, a more quality and tech board did improve my riding. Since i started snowboarding 8 years ago i've had 4 different boards, each one progressively better than the next. With that said i feel like if my second board would have been something i could have grown in to i think my riding would have been that much better earlier on and i would have saved some $$$ in the long term. But only you know how much you'll be using it and the value of a deck to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the feedback and the info, all of you! All valid, good points.

Also, i cannot stress this part enough...DONT WORRY ABOUT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE! you will never see the base, and if you are on your way down the mountain, look down and say "I wish this looked better" you will crash and die.
I understand what you're saying. However, at the top of the hill I'll be strapping in and at that point I'll look at the board. If it's ugly it'll piss me off and that'll make me unfocused and I will crash and die. :D

All that said, Steez is right....thats a good set up to learn on, and with the upgrade of having Cartels on it, you will feel much more confident no doubt.
Yeah, I'm very curious about how differently it's going to ride with the Cartels.

I know it's probably different pricing over there in europe but you can pick up 2012/13 model boards on evo.com (just an example) for about 30% off. Might be worthwhile looking into last year model boards if there are any available where you are? I plan on getting this years TD after this season when it goes on sale as mine is pretty dinged up.
The problem is that once you slap intercontinental shipment, customs and VAT to the prices in America you usually end up with the same prices as in Europe or higher. Plus, if the board turns out to be defective returning it is going to be a bitch. But I have some 30+ European sites I'm checking regularly so I think I'll manage to find something reasonable - per European price standards at least.

As much as it makes sense to stick with your current board, if you feel like it is holding you back and you are prepared to get a new one then I say why not.
We'll see what magic the Cartels do and then after UCPA I'll be able to decide which board is appropriate to upgrade to.

And if anyone else wants to chip in you're more than welcome to. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I’ve given this a little more thought and based on the feedback I’ve received I’ve decided to narrow the list down to the following boards:

  • K2 Raygun 161 (waist 253mm)
  • Rossignol Templar 159mw (waist 260 mm)
  • Flow Drifter 162 (waist 256 mm)
  • Rossignol Angus 161 (waist 253 mm)
  • Jones Mountain Twin 158mw/160 (waist 259/257 mm)
This time it's sorted (approximately) from less to more advanced board. The sizes I’ve picked are based on waist width and weight recommendations. I know the waist width isn’t the relevant measure but at least it gives an indication of how wide your board will be at the inserts.

So now I have two new questions:

1) I’ve noticed that the toe-heel adjustability on my Cartel (Re:Flex) are quite severely limited. There are only three positions you can put them in: Centered and approximately 5 mm towards either toe or heel. Even with the binding in the forward position I get a bigger heel than toe overhang. It seems to be ok at “normal angles” with my Blunt which has a waist width of 260 mm, but I’m a little worried it’ll become a problem if I pick a board like, say, the Raygun. Still want to have a board that’s as narrow as possible. Any opinions on this?

2) The Angus and the Mountain Twin would, at the point where I am right now, most likely inhibit rather than improve my riding. But I’m not buying the board now. Do you think I might benefit from their higher-end characteristics already after a full week of coaching at UCPA?

Additional comments on the boards on my list are, as always, welcome.
 

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you have narrowed your list of 9 down to a list of 5....

Get rid of the Raygun b/c of the extruded base, IMO don't go bigger than 160.

If you want rocker in the middle get the Flow, otherwise your choices are RCR, so....
If you want magnetraction go with Templar, if you want mellow magne, go with the Jones.
If you dont want Magne, go with Angus.

We cant pick for you bud!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
We cant pick for you bud!
Well, that wasn't really what I was asking for - my currrent questions are marked with 1) and 2). ;)

Get rid of the Raygun b/c of the extruded base, IMO don't go bigger than 160.
Thanks. Yeah, I know I shouldn't really go too far above 160 for an all mtn board (although the length in itself isn't really a good indicator as camber profile, running length, and stiffness come into play here) but it seems I tend to be on the heavier side for many shorter boards...and my feet a tad to big.

I think I have most of the camber theory and whatnot down - have been reading about this stuff for over 12 months now - but in theory only. I understand that what I really need is experience and more days on the hill, but in lack of snow, friends who ride, and demoing possibilities, I'm turning to you, my more experienced fellow forumers, for opinions, reflections and advice. :)
 

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Well, I would go with RCR....I would also say that the Angus and MT will NOT hold you back or anything.

Buying your first board can be super intimidating as you have no idea what each profile/stiffnes rides like and you also dont yet know your "style" of riding. Best thing to do is get something of high quality, right down the middle of "All Mountain" and learn (a little set back will help with not cartwheeling the first time you get some pow). Once you learn, you will know the little things to look for next time.

I have had 8 snowboards now of all different profiles, edge tech, base tech, shape, etc. I think i finally know exactly what i want...it can only be found out by riding different boards.


Honestly, as a complete beginner, I wold get the Templar (or the One if youre worried about your weight as its a touch stiffer) by Rossignol....learn on it, ride it, they are awesome boards for the price and will not hold you back.
 

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I am the same size as you, but riding for longer. I wear size 11 and have never needed a wide board. I've ridin at least, 20 boards. Last year I had a 11 Angus and a 12 Ride DH2 and I disliked the DH2 so much after riding the Angus. I could hold a edge much better. I got the 2014 159 Angus for this year. I also have a DC Ply 13, Ride Machete 162, Capita Stairmaster Extreme 159. I'm thinking I'll mostly be on the Angus, but only time will tell :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well, I would go with RCR....I would also say that the Angus and MT will NOT hold you back or anything.
Yeah, that's kind of what I've been leaning towards. It seems to be a good profile...on paper at least. :)

Buying your first board can be super intimidating as you have no idea what each profile/stiffnes rides like and you also dont yet know your "style" of riding.
Or in my case my second board as I feel I didn't do enough research with my first board. I actually bought a Ride Antic first but returned it and got the Blunt instead because I wanted a true twin to learn to ride both regular and switch. That might have been my first mistake, although the basic idea was good. ^^

Honestly, as a complete beginner, I wold get the Templar (or the One if youre worried about your weight as its a touch stiffer) by Rossignol....learn on it, ride it, they are awesome boards for the price and will not hold you back.
I'll wait until I'll no longer be a complete beginner, but something tells me the Templar will still be more than ok at that point. IF the sizing is good - 250 sounds like very little and 260 like a tad too much. Don't think I'll ever become a hard charger - I'm too old for that. :giggle:

I am the same size as you, but riding for longer. I wear size 11 and have never needed a wide board. I've ridin at least, 20 boards. Last year I had a 11 Angus and a 12 Ride DH2 and I disliked the DH2 so much after riding the Angus. I could hold a edge much better. I got the 2014 159 Angus for this year. I also have a DC Ply 13, Ride Machete 162, Capita Stairmaster Extreme 159. I'm thinking I'll mostly be on the Angus, but only time will tell :)
Interesting! So an Angus 159 (with a waist of 252 mm) works for you. May I for the sake of comparison be so bold and ask you about your foot length, boot model, angles, and riding style with this board, my dear sir?
 

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Last year I rode Burton Rulers 11. I ride all mountain, but I usually take a bunch of laps in the park. I hit the jumps l, and smaller boxes. I ride very fast regular and switch. This holds a edge very well, way better than the DH2.
 

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I'll take a pic. I also think my angles aren't as duck as others. I think I'm like 12/9. It's all about the angles though. I'll ride much worse with the wrong angles.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Cool, greatly appreciated. So, you wear Burton Rulers that unlike my Teams have a reduced footprint. I wonder how much actual difference that makes for...
 

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I've been snowboarding for years with a regular board. I've riddin as small as a 137 Morrow Lunch Tray. Never had shrink tech before
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ok, got it. Post a pic if you have the time. And if I have time this weekend I might take a photo of my setup that shows the assymetrical overhang and post it so you guys can give your opinions on it. Cheers.
 

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Just focus on learning to snowboard. You're over thinking it. Snowboarding gets funnest when you don't have to 'think' at all. You just 'do'.

UCPA instruction includes equipment anyway. As I understand it, pretty new and of good quality. Rossignol I think but don't quote me on that. They may even have a selection so you can try out a few different profiles and see which you prefer.
 
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