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Hi All. First post.

I always set my bindings so that an equal amount of boot shows at either edge of the board. I've been happy this way and not noticed any problems. However on a recent trip to France I met a guy whose toes overhung more than his heel - it was quite noticeable. When I asked him about it his logic seemed pretty sound: he said that whenever he moves on his feet on a board to make a turn he's focusing his energy through either the ball of the foot or the heel - the toes are effectively superfluous for snowboarding purposes, so he ignores them and centres his boot so that the heels and balls of his feet are equidistant from the edges.

Even outside of boarding this intuitively makes sense as who (apart from ballet dancers) ever actually stands on the end of their toes?

Is he right? He was certainly a better rider than me, but that could well have been in spite of his foot position and not because of it. Any opinions much appreciated!
 

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I can see the logical reasoning behind this but it doesn't work that way. When using your toe side you don't just use the balls of your feet but also the toes. It is true that it's not just the toes but usually your balance is somewhere in between or rather generally on your forefoot. You can try it right where you are. Put your foot in a position that simulates a toe side turn. You will notice that your toes play more of a role than you think.
 

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I can see the logical reasoning behind this but it doesn't work that way. When using your toe side you don't just use the balls of your feet but also the toes. It is true that it's not just the toes but usually your balance is somewhere in between or rather generally on your forefoot. You can try it right where you are. Put your foot in a position that simulates a toe side turn. You will notice that your toes play more of a role than you think.
You know what, I don't consciously think about how I make turns anymore, so this is an interesting exercise. Standing here in front of my computer simulating a toe side turn (no one else is around to see me luckily), I'm certainly aware that when I collapse the front knee a little to initiate the turn there is quite a lot of pressure on my toes rather than just the ball of the foot. If I then do it again whilst trying to go only to the ball of my foot then it doesn't feel right at all (although what 'feels right' to me is rather subjective I admit).
 

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Still being a relative NooB to the sport, I couldn't speak from any real knowledge or experience. It sounds logical on the face of it, but with the toes of the boot sticking further out beyond the edge of the board I would think "Toe Drag" would become the bigger issue.

On a hard toe side carve, wouldn't having your boots toes extending farther than necessary cause toe drag and have a tendency to lift/kick the edge out of your line & cause a washout?
 

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I've actually played with both positions and find centering the boot works best. Too much toe overhang and you lose heelside leverage and spinning off the heels becomes very difficult, and having the balls of your feet over the toe edge give too much power transfer to the edge that already has the advantage in that area. Plus toe drag pretty much limits how aggressively you can lay a carve. This would be the least ideal boot position.

Having more heel overhang puts the balls of your feet closer to the center of your board and actually increases control, especially off of jumps and sliding boxes and rails, and the heel overhang adds more power transfer to the heel edge. The downside is it also increases your chances of hanging up on an edge when you're boardsliding backwards, which I found happened alot. Centering the boot is the best way to go.

Personally, I think the kid was just BS'ing you because his bindings didn't fit his boots.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Personally, I think the kid was just BS'ing you because his bindings didn't fit his boots.
Lol. In all seriousness it's good to know that at least one other person has tried it though. After what you've both said I don't think I'll be breaking out my screwdrivers any time soon :)
 

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Personally, I think the kid was just BS'ing you because his bindings didn't fit his boots.
HAHAHAHA!!!!

I recently got some high level coaching on carving from someone who used to coach at olympic level. He noted that when holding a toe side carve your toes should not at all be engaged, in fact, you should be able to wiggle your toes while holding a toe side carve. This is because you should be using your shins to lean forward into your boot to hold the carve, eliminating the use of your toes which helps to absorb bumps as you are not effectively pushing off the ground.

Just a thought, apart from that what Extremo said haha!!!
 

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The Swiss Miss
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Still being a relative NooB to the sport, I couldn't speak from any real knowledge or experience. It sounds logical on the face of it, but with the toes of the boot sticking further out beyond the edge of the board I would think "Toe Drag" would become the bigger issue.

On a hard toe side carve, wouldn't having your boots toes extending farther than necessary cause toe drag and have a tendency to lift/kick the edge out of your line & cause a washout?
Not a single emoticon?! You're ill...?

Yes, toe drag would be an issue. The kid was certainly not into carving.


I recently got some high level coaching on carving from someone who used to coach at olympic level. He noted that when holding a toe side carve your toes should not at all be engaged, in fact, you should be able to wiggle your toes while holding a toe side carve. This is because you should be using your shins to lean forward into your boot to hold the carve, eliminating the use of your toes which helps to absorb bumps as you are not effectively pushing off the ground.
that's what I surveyed monitoring me riding last weekend (forward stances, stiff boots, well tightened). Toes are used to initiate a turn, then the shins/knees do the work and toes are free to jump in if mini-adjustments are needed.
 

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Not a single emoticon?! You're ill...?

Yes, toe drag would be an issue. The kid was certainly not into carving.
.
:eusa_clap: :dunno: ...just a little "post season" depression! :huh:
I'll be back to my old self, creepin' out the ladies in no time!!!


I appreciate the concern tho!! ;) :cheeky4:
 

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Sometimes it is good not having monster feet!

But even with my size 9s I have noticed my toes dragging on some sharp turns and when carving toeside up a ramp/berm
 

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HAHAHAHA!!!!

I recently got some high level coaching on carving from someone who used to coach at olympic level. He noted that when holding a toe side carve your toes should not at all be engaged, in fact, you should be able to wiggle your toes while holding a toe side carve. This is because you should be using your shins to lean forward into your boot to hold the carve, eliminating the use of your toes which helps to absorb bumps as you are not effectively pushing off the ground.

Just a thought, apart from that what Extremo said haha!!!
also, in a deep toeside carve, it's not going to be able to effectively compare to trying to imitate it on the floor. your board is at an angle and you're generating lateral g's.
 

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Didn't read the other replies, but here's my two cents... With the rigid construction of a snowboard boot, energy transmitted through the ball is expressed through the entire toe section of the boot. Therefore, the primary 'contact point' of the boot's forward section to the binding is the most important consideration. In my mind it's a combination of the binding base...and the front strap...especially if it's a toe strap. If you were wearing vibram five-fingers shoes with step-in bindings to ride a snowboard, that guy's logic would be perfectly sound.
 

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those are arrows pointing down at the quote, thats all i would have said...you drive minimally with the toes, bindings should be centered
 

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That works great until you go to the park. Try spinning normally backside without using your toes. Or hucking backside without them.
 

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of course...up til now the thread was about carving, and binding position, which i would definitely want centered for park/jumping also
 

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"Having more heel overhang puts the balls of your feet closer to the center of your board and actually increases control, especially off of jumps and sliding boxes and rails, and the heel overhang adds more power transfer to the heel edge. The downside is it also increases your chances of hanging up on an edge when you're boardsliding backwards, which I found happened alot. Centering the boot is the best way to go. "

I came across this post and find this idea is discussed very little on the internet. I ride with heel biased and like having the balls of my feet close to centerline on the board. I can pop in a powerful and evenly balanced way off the balls of my feet if they are centerline. Everyone and their mother tells me I should center my boots to the board, and I do want to be doing thing optimally, but I don't see the point in this. Extremo, do you ride with some more heel overhang than toe? Can anyone else throw their 2 cents in? Any info is much appreciated.
 
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