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The Swiss Miss
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
First impressions after 4 days on that new deck which replaces my '13 158 Flag still made by Nidecker (there's a very good review of that board by an other member in the review section.)

Set up: Flag 154 (smallest men's version); Burton Lexa M at reference inserts stance width 55cm, bindings shifted to the front edge, +18/-6°; Deeluxe Spark XV US men's size 6.5.
Rider: 115lb, 5'8

Early season conditions were like in spring: early morning refrozen hardpack, midday heavy hard chop, slushy chop in the afternoon and - yay - knee deep cold powder.

The '16 has the same bomb proof grip on hardpack and ice, no reason to slow down even on icy steep patches, the edge holds and runs nicely. Just ride. Float in pow is great as it used to be, the -4cm in length didn't hamper float. Just ride. Base is very fast, like before. Stable at speed - but as it were the first days of the season, I didn't leave the comfort zone yet and took it easy :)

The very nice thing with the '16 Flag: the teeth ratteling lack of dampening on hard chop which the '13 had is not perceivable with the new deck. I've been riding those hard groomers with all the bumps without getting as hard impacts as with the old deck. It seems as if they improved the dampening in the new model which is a huge plus. Formerly, I had recommended the Flag only as a quiver board for the early morning good groomers and pow. But that '16 one, I've kept on riding it all day - also in conditions I formerly had swapped to a more forgiving board when the chop piles up. It's almost an all day all condition board now. (Don't get me wrong, it's still a very stiff board which will demand to be ridden with well bent knees; still no cruising deck; only get it if you know that you like that type of board i.e. want to charge hard all day).

Otherwise, it's again a very predictable and reliable responsive board. Very quick edge to edge, easy to turn if ridden at a decent speed - it's not a slow motion easy to turn deck.

The sizing down/going narrower payed for me, not only does she almost seem nimble in short quick pow turns, I also can carve her easily on fronside turns and also backside - where I had struggled with the old one.
Got a new favorite deck :)
 
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The Swiss Miss
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Discussion Starter #3
Not really softer... maybe better distributed? I can still hardly tail press it - actually, I love the stiff tail to rail through turns and give an impulse at the end of a carve to accelerate - and it's still very stiff torsionally. But the dampening is definitely there now. It's also smoother to land. While the old already felt awesome but sometimes like a crude plank, the new feels more rounded.
 

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The Swiss Miss
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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Sounds like the differences are really in large part due to the change in size.
I'm not sure I understand... are you confirming the differences I already attributed to the size change? Or are you saying that also the increase in dampening comes from the change in size?
 

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The Swiss Miss
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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
BTW: one more difference of sizing down - purely rider specific anecdote: I had to adjust my body position. The nose digs in now easily when I do frontside carves the same way as I used to (heavy on the front foot, which was never an issue with the longer boards I was used to ride). The first carves I did with the same used weight position, the nose dug in and padaam! I was slipping over the slopes on my belly, laughing at me :laugh:.

The -4cm in edge length asked to distribute weight more evenly. I assume this heavy on front foot is a bad habit of mine anyway. This smaller deck will correct this very quickly :). With the adjusted weight distribution, she was almost easy to carve, with the advantage that my front thigh didn't show the soreness I was familiar with before. The old deck, I was hardly able to bend, needed a lot of muscle an precision (yeah, obviously, I'm too light ;)) but with the 154, I now can carve almost effortlessly and play with the turn radius.

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Long story short: the 154 is a very nice option for light weight & small footed riders seeking for a freeride board :)
 

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BTW: one more difference of sizing down - purely rider specific anecdote: I had to adjust my body position. The nose digs in now easily when I do frontside carves the same way as I used to (heavy on the front foot, which was never an issue with the longer boards I was used to ride). The first carves I did with the same used weight position, the nose dug in and padaam! I was slipping over the slopes on my belly, laughing at me :laugh:.

The -4cm in edge length asked to distribute weight more evenly. I assume this heavy on front foot is a bad habit of mine anyway. This smaller deck will correct this very quickly :). With the adjusted weight distribution, she was almost easy to carve, with the advantage that my front thigh didn't show the soreness I was familiar with before. The old deck, I was hardly able to bend, needed a lot of muscle an precision (yeah, obviously, I'm too light ;)) but with the 154, I now can carve almost effortlessly and play with the turn radius.

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Long story short: the 154 is a very nice option for light weight & small footed riders seeking for a freeride board :)
Neni, your experience is a brilliant example of how riders continue to fine tune their riding as well as discovering what type and size of board is best for them. As much as you enjoyed your experience on the bigger Flag, it sounds like you may have now found an even better board for you. ENJOY !!!!
 

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Hello Neni, hope I can make use of your experience (but everybody else is more than welcome).

Briefly : I'm looking for my XMas gift as I was thinking about the Flagship 164 (I'm 175 cm but 85 kilos "naked"). I was almost ready to buy but other two boards arouse my curiosity:

Burton tough cat 162
K2 Carve Air

low intermediate level, riding a FS board the since 3 yrs (I'm back at boarding after a looong stop; I was riding asymmetrical board hard when young).
use : carving / cruising on piste + powder. I'll keep taking lessons to improve the skills as I really want to improve; will keep the FS board for crowded resort, easy riding etc (is a Drake DF2 156)

what would u reckon the pros & cons on those 3 boards?

happy to hear! thanks
 

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The Swiss Miss
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Discussion Starter #9
low intermediate level, riding a FS board the since 3 yrs (I'm back at boarding after a looong stop; I was riding asymmetrical board hard when young).
use : carving / cruising on piste + powder. I'll keep taking lessons to improve the skills as I really want to improve; will keep the FS board for crowded resort, easy riding etc (is a Drake DF2 156)

what would u reckon the pros & cons on those 3 boards?

happy to hear! thanks
Hmmm... don't know the other 2 boards, can't say which would be the best option.
Considering the Flag: how well are your carving skillz? If you already can carve +/- confidently, and are looking for a stable fast board for groomers, then the Flag could be a good option to grow into and improve. It's very forgiving in terms of edge catch due to the front contact points being close to the front inserts. But it could be that it's flex will need bit of getting used to... don't know your FS board, so I cannot say how shocking the flex change would be for you... it sure would teach you to have to work for your turns, it's pretty stiff and won't bend "for free". You've to use proper technique to get it into nice carves - which I liked: in the 3 years since I ride that deck my technique has improved a lot cos I simply had to be precise.
OTOH, if you still struggle with carves, it could be that you get frustrated with that deck cos it could take some time till you get a feeling of success... in that case, a lessstiff deck may be more optimal.
 
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Thanks Neni

Exactly what I'm worried about: I'd like something challenging so that I HAVE to improve as you said... but if I go to far forward I might end up the other way around and get frustrated....

Hope someone have "tested" the Tough Cat or the Carve Air and will share his opinion..
 

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The Swiss Miss
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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
The bases of all our Jones boards (Solutions, Flagships, Mothership from different years) was very durable. I many times turned the board expecting to break out in tears seing a core shot or ripped edge after hitting rocks, but only found a superficial scratch. Also the wooden topsheet is as durable like any normal top sheet. Ski poles won't leave scratches.

The only damage I got so far were some dings on the sidewalls of the Mothership from hitting trunks when riding trees. I'm sure, any other board would have shown the same wear.

Base of all of them is super fast. We don't wax religiously... the new one was never waxed yet, has 8 days on it, base looks bit dry at the contacts meanwhile but still is faster than I need it to be ;).
SOs Flag didn't see wax since last season, base looks grey instead of black - poor neglected board :blush: - but still does 70mph on the mid temp re-frozen snow we have ATM.

We'll wax when snow temperatures change to very cold and snow would stick to the base, or in spring when all the water suction slows one down, with an additional stone grind structuring. In the "normal" temperatures, we almost never wax.
 

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@neni I was going to pull the trigger on a new '16 Flag 158, until I saw the '17 Flag descriptions. What interests me most is the addition of rubber dampening to the edges. There are other factors (new core, for one) that lead me to think the '17 will ride more damper than previous models. Any thoughts, guesses on how the new Flag will ride compared to yours?
 

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@neni I was going to pull the trigger on a new '16 Flag 158, until I saw the '17 Flag descriptions. What interests me most is the addition of rubber dampening to the edges. There are other factors (new core, for one) that lead me to think the '17 will ride more damper than previous models. Any thoughts, guesses on how the new Flag will ride compared to yours?
Jones snowboards always have had the rubber along the edges. What is new for next season is just that the rubber is recycled next season.

Flag is already super damp so new core won't make much of a difference in that respect. The real change at Jones for next seasons is the spoon tech on most boards.

In fact, virtually all snowboards have this rubber strip. The reason is not damping (although some marketing guys at Jones, NS, etc. like to play it up that way) but to make the laminate stick together (metal edges do not bond well).
 

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Flag is already super damp so new core won't make much of a difference in that respect. The real change at Jones for next seasons is the spoon tech on most boards.

The new shape, core, topsheet (or lack of one), stringers, etc. taken together surely would yield a different feel, wouldn't it?

I get that the spoon will make the board plane better in pow but was wondering if the new board will feel more absorbent on hard bumps, how all the change is meant to improve the ride feel compared to the current version.
 

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The Swiss Miss
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Discussion Starter #16
I'll try a new one if I get my hands on one but won't actively search a demo; got a brand new quiver I really like this year, won't relpace them any time soon :)

Don't know what to think of that spoon stuff, if it's mainly marketing gimmick or a real improvement... :dunno: It's not as I've been sitting around thinking "hopefully they come up with something which makes the board float better" ;). I've never felt the need for more float, not even on the smaller women's 152 Flag. K, maybe cos I'm rather light for both boards but Hub is in the middle of the weight range of his 164 Flag and also never mentioned lack of float.
 

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I'll try a new one if I get my hands on one but won't actively search a demo; got a brand new quiver I really like this year, won't relpace them any time soon :)

Don't know what to think of that spoon stuff, if it's mainly marketing gimmick or a real improvement... :dunno: It's not as I've been sitting around thinking "hopefully they come up with something which makes the board float better" ;). I've never felt the need for more float, not even on the smaller women's 152 Flag. K, maybe cos I'm rather light for both boards but Hub is in the middle of the weight range of his 164 Flag and also never mentioned lack of float.
I really find it hard to believe that it could be a marketing gimmick. JJ puts his heart and soul into his brand. They also do years of product testing before committing to a new technology, especially one as drastic as the spoon. Bataleon and YES have had a hydro hull/raised edges in their lineups previous years so IMO this is an addition that will be beneficial. Not everyone will like it, but I'll wager a guess that it stays over time in some boards. I'd love to get my hands on a '17 storm chaser.
 

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I really find it hard to believe that it could be a marketing gimmick. JJ puts his heart and soul into his brand.
Sorry, but BS. JJ is doing it because it is fun and (to a lesser extent) makes money. The boards are good (I own one) and the marketing is somewhat 'restrained', but let's not pretend that this is a labor of love for him.
 

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Spoon is not a factor for me either, which is why I am more curious about everything else they changed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Sorry, but BS. JJ is doing it because it is fun and (to a lesser extent) makes money. The boards are good (I own one) and the marketing is somewhat 'restrained', but let's not pretend that this is a labor of love for him.
I wouldn't sell shit with my name on it because it's fun. But clearly you know him better than I do.
 
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