[armybpc1985]

This was definitely an eye opener for me. I like to ride trees, and I never thought that there was any real danger to it besides slamming into tree. I figured I'm wearing a helmet so I'll be fine. I'll definitely be watching out for these possible tree wells from now on.

 

[Toecutter]

How long does the average victim survive in a well before finally succumbing? I picture it being only a few (like 3-5) minutes, but does it sometimes drag out longer?

 

[AIRider]

snowolf, you should sticky this for a few weeks, at least until the season is full underway, so more people read this.

 

[armybpc1985]

I agree with you. This is good info that hopefully more people will view if it stays up longer. Who knows, maybe this bit of knowledge will save someone's life.

 

[marcdeo]

How long does the average victim survive in a well before finally succumbing? I picture it being only a few (like 3-5) minutes, but does it sometimes drag out longer?

IF the person fell head first and was 100% immediately suffocated without ANY air (picture a rear naked choke) then yeah, 5 minutes tops. that however is usualy not the case. I would imagine the death to be much more gradual, slow, torturous. Perhaps hanging upside down all night, then eventually dying from hypothermia.

 

[marcdeo]

Does anyone have any recommendations on the equiptment we should be using re: what brands/where to buy/what to look for/what items/what costs etc etc etc. I am assuming- whistle, shovel, probe......
a
that video opened my eyes. Im heading to Revy in January. Glades and la Nina could spell horrible tragedy - I must be prepared.

THANK YOU AGAIN for this thread!

 

[AcroPhile]

How long does the average victim survive in a well before finally succumbing? I picture it being only a few (like 3-5) minutes, but does it sometimes drag out longer?

I was stuck semi-upside down in a tree well once. Luckily there was a big air cavity by my face so I was able to breathe but getting out was a whole different story. As long as you have room to breathe you have some time. There was a video on the internet and the news last year of a guy that fell into a tree well with a Go-Pro cam or something. He was able to reach into his pocket and use his cell phone to call for help. There are avalanche reports on CAIC's website of avalanche survivors that were buried for hours before being rescued or digging themselves out. So I don't know if you can quantify the average time a person has to survive in a tree well before succumbing. There is a lot of factors at work here, primarily weather or not you are able to breathe and for how long. If you fall into a tree well right next to groomed trail chances are some will see you and be able to help you out quickly. If you're venturing a little further off piste an Ava-Lung many not be a bad idea. People do die inbounds at resorts from tree well incidents.

 

[AIRider]

Does anyone have any recommendations on the equiptment we should be using re: what brands/where to buy/what to look for/what items/what costs etc etc etc. I am assuming- whistle, shovel, probe......
a
that video opened my eyes. Im heading to Revy in January. Glades and la Nina could spell horrible tragedy - I must be prepared.

THANK YOU AGAIN for this thread!

When I saw that video, I was freaked out as well, an eye opener.

I just tied up a whistle in my jacket as well, just in case…

I think the best way to train for such thing, is to actually, purposely fall into one, (with your friends around of course) and try to get yourself out, because practice makes perfect, or at least will make you panic less.

 

[Kwanzaa]

Inbounds within the ski area boundary. Groomed trails are generally safe from this. But watch for these small trees on the sides of the groomers; several fatal accidents have occurred within a few yards of groomed trails. I had an encounter with a snow bridge at Timberline one night early in the season. To the right of Vicky's Run is a small bluff that makes for a great natural kicker. I hit it hard and launched myself out into what looked like soft deep pow. What it turned out be was a giant snow bridge supported by thick, tangled 3 to 4 foot high pine saplings. I was tangled up in them that it took me forever to get out. I was in sight of the main trail and not more than 20 feet from it. Had I landed on my back, I could have gone in upside down easily.

On mount washing

I've once fallen into a 15 foot hole on the side of a groomer, but still within the runs boundries. It didn't make any sense how or why it was there, it was just a big open hole about 12 foot across 15 feet deep that went down to rock. There was i think 620cm base at that time. I fell into it because i was turning to head into the glades and i followed some ski tracks that went over a tiny roller, i got to the top and it was just like a small cliff.

another time I was going down a different run with some buddies and suddenly my friend did what looked like someone jumping for their life, and we stop and there's this black hole that went straight down about 4 foot across that my friend jumped over, no marking or anything, so we start riding a little more cautious and we come across 4 more of these holes that go down however many feet, like i said the snow base at that time was between 600-700cm. These where in the middle of a double black groomed run.

 

[ThunderChunky]

When I saw that video, I was freaked out as well, an eye opener.

I just tied up a whistle in my jacket as well, just in case…

I think the best way to train for such thing, is to actually, purposely fall into one, (with your friends around of course) and try to get yourself out, because practice makes perfect, or at least will make you panic less.

......I don't.....feel like this ......is a good idea.

 

[dreampow]

Impressive kit their Snowolf. Most impressive.
You board with that knife strapped to your arm? would get arrested here in Japan.
We don't have tree wells where I ride because the trees are different, even so going off piste solo is something I have stopped doing. As was mentioned staying in visual and verbal contact all the while is the way to go. Even if you just hit a tree or took a bad fall you could be in real trouble by yourself.

Stay safe people.

 

[AIRider]

Off to wall mart to buy rope, knife, radio and fiiiire... Lol talk about a rape kit.

 

[ClevelandSB]

Don't judge me too harshly on this because I am from Ohio and have only ridden anywhere big once (Vail), but do you (snowolf) really carry all of that stuff when you're riding in an area where ski patrol and cats roam?
when I was at vail the farthest I could get away from all the people and still make it to a lift at the end of the run without a huge hike were places like this

but it seemed extremely safe and nonthreatening. Am I just extremely ignorant or are you riding in areas at resorts that are out of bounds?
edit: you can see the out of bounds rope in the photo above. I was in bounds in this pic and didn't go out because if I did I wouldn't have made it to the lift at the bottom

 

[Pickle]

snowwolf, should i be carrying a pack like this all the time? i usually just board with my friends, on highly populated, groomed slopes.

 

[NWBoarder]

A pack like Snowolfs is not necessary every time you ride. However, out here in PNW, a lot of BC is accessed through gates at the resorts. Also, the snowpack and the terrain out here in the PNW is quite a bit different than what you would get further east. Anyway, being prepared is never a bad thing, and if you like to ride with a pack, then I see no sense in not carrying everything you need to be safe and sound overnight, in the woods, during winter.

 

[Mr. Polonia]

deep snow is def a bitch to get out of. I remember when i went catboarding in BC, it was my first time ever riding in deep snow...20-30ft untouched of it for that matter. Our guides told us to avoid riding too close to trees because of potential tree wells. I remember that every time i fell, i mustve had prob a foot of snow over me, granted i fell on my back and it was nothing serious, but the sheer weight of only a couple of inches over you was a really bitch to get out. It took a lot of energy not only to stand back up, but also to wipe off all that weight from your top sheet just to stay afloat once again.

Wrathfudelity i can only imagine how how hard it mustve been for you to unbuckle ur bindings and try to "swim" out of it

EDIT: Now that i just saw that link, it looks exactly like the type of place and terrain where i went catboarding

 

[TYrice93]

Can you guys explain to me what exactly a tree well is? That video didn't work on my phone

 

[TYrice93]

Wow, that sounds pretty scary. I've rode in between the trees a few times, but never really payed attention to tree wells.. Even though I don't go near the trees very much, I'll have to remember that next time. I aways see the mini ring around the bottom of trees where there's less snow, but didnt really know about the covered tree wells. Thanks Snowolf!

 

[KIRKRIDER]

Got a taste of it last season, inbound in Kirkwood after a huge 3 day dump. After an ample and fast turn to the left I did another to get back on the right, and ended up on a small steep hill, that was closed off from the rest of the trail, I ended up there by mistake and found my self on this unstable and loaded steep mini avalanche waiting to happen. I didn't want to keep traversing, so I tracked back stepped off the board and started to climb up the slope, only to find myself buried in neck deep snow at each step. Using the board as a tool I was trying to climb up, instead I was digging a wall of snow in front of me. That made me realize how much snow I was dealing with and what would have happened if it moved on me. I was at that point maybe 5 feet away and under the boundary. Chair lift in sight.
Getting back up was exhausting and a wake up call. Same day, later, cutting trough a tree section where the wind blown snow was 3 - 6 feet higher than anywhere else, I found myself stuck chest deep just riding over it. It wasn't a tree well but just very very light and uncompressed powder that gave way immediately. Even if you don't get buried getting out makes you realize what you're dealing with. That was again INBOUND, in a resort after a massive 3 day 10 feet dump. Be careful out there.

 

[davidj]

I'm going to be riding Beaver Creek and Vail by the end of the week. Was planning on doing some tree riding well within resort boundaries - between runs, under the lift... you know. Currently the base is really thin, about 20 inches or so, with no more than a few inches forecast for the week. Should I be worried about tree wells?