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Sidecut Radius for Carving on Steep slopes ?

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Hi ! New to the forum.

I ride in Europe where the slopes are pretty steep.

I’m currently ordering a customized board from a local snowboard craftsman.
I love carving ! I’d like to be able to carv on most terrains.
My burton custom is currently holding me back. I think the main reason is the short sidecut radius : 7,6m
Also, the board might not be stiff enough ?
So for hard charging carving both switch and regular I’m going with a stiff twin with a 30cm waist.
I watch Ryan Knapton and I’m inspired by the work of Donek. But in Colorado the runs are soooooooo flat !!!!

My question:

What single sidecut radius would suit me best to control my speed while carving on steep and sometimes narrow runs in the Alps ?

I originally wanted to go with 12m for great stability.
But should I go with 9? 10? 11?

Does someone have experience carving big sidecut radius boards on steep and narrow runs ?

:)
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I don't really think you can hopefully someone can correct me. If you got your radius wide enough to carve on steeps then you're essentially straight lining on edge.

PS Colorado has some steeps but kapton does not ride them as his game is carving. There is one clip I saw a while back of him riding some pretty steep terrain and you could see his board was making it a chore. It was too steep for him to carve and too wide to maneuver easily.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi lifeisgold, thanks for the reply !

Hum I understand, so I should go with shorter radius. Is 9 or 10 still too big ?

I know I really don’t like the 7,6m main sidecut of the Burton custom. On gentle carvs it’s ok at low to medium speed, I think maybe it has different sidecuts depending on the portion of the edge. But with a little more speed when I tilt the board further it decambers too much and shortens drastically the turn, putting so much pressure on the edge it losses grip and causes me to fall.
Of course sometime I feel the problem is me booting out. This “wide” version of the custom is a joke for my size 9,5 boots.
 

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I ride both Europe and North America.

I doubt the radius of your existing board specifically is causing the issue you describe there. It sounds like:
  1. the board's just too soft to support your weight at that speed
  2. and possibly it's not torsionally stiff enough.
Are you riding the right length of "Custom" for your weight? If you are, then try the next size up, or find a stiffer board design which grips better at speed. I'm fairly sure there are people who'll ride those boards at good speed - if they can do it, you can do it.

You do need something you can get your feet across without boot-out, sure.

It's tricky with customized stuff. If you don't know what you want, you need to build a lot of boards to get it right. I would ride as many stock boards as you can until you understand precisely what it is you want, and why.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Yeahti87 and philw !

I was going with a customized snowboard for this :

• Stiff true twin
• Extra wide ~30cm waist
• Short nose and tail —> maximize edge length while reducing board length 157-159 —> good edge hold and easier buttering

Do you know any stock board like this ?
 

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Thanks Yeahti87 and philw !

I was going with a customized snowboard for this :

• Stiff true twin
• Extra wide ~30cm waist
• Short nose and tail —> maximize edge length while reducing board length 157-159 —> good edge hold and easier buttering

Do you know any stock board like this ?
There are no boards like that. You have to go Donek custom board class that way.

What is your weight, height and mondo boot size?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
There are no boards like that. You have to go Donek custom board class that way.

What is your weight, height and mondo boot size?
That’s what I thought.
I won’t import a Donek from Colorado. Shipment, climate change…

I’m currently working with a local craftsman in France. The name of the company is Clone ind, he will be able to « clone » something like the Donek Knapton twin.

158
30 waist
Flex ~8/10
I just need to choose the sidecut radius.

9, 10, 11, 12 ?

I know that alpine (like in Alps…) boards can go up to 11 or 13m sr. And the men are putting some good carvs even on steeps.

But would a softboot twin ride the same with this kind of « big » sr ?
 

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Hi lifeisgold, thanks for the reply !

Hum I understand, so I should go with shorter radius. Is 9 or 10 still too big ?

I know I really don’t like the 7,6m main sidecut of the Burton custom. On gentle carvs it’s ok at low to medium speed, I think maybe it has different sidecuts depending on the portion of the edge. But with a little more speed when I tilt the board further it decambers too much and shortens drastically the turn, putting so much pressure on the edge it losses grip and causes me to fall.
Of course sometime I feel the problem is me booting out. This “wide” version of the custom is a joke for my size 9,5 boots.
Not at all. I was saying the issue with carving on truly steep slopes is that you do need a larger turn radius to lock in a edge just as you are saying. The problem is the larger the turn radius the straighter your line is. So that on a steep slope if you do lock in your edge you're going to gather a tremendous amount of speed and almost be straight lining down the hill on edge. That is if your turn radius is wide enough which is hard to accomplish.

Essentially I don't know maybe other people will know better but I've never seen anyone carve on very steep slopes if it was hardpack and they were riding a snowboard.

That's not to say you can't be on edge before doing a speed check or slight skid but linked carved turns on truly steep terrain seems impossible with the equipment we have currently(softboot). (Granted if the face is wide enough and you don't mind riding at the speed of wind resistance that's different)
 

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PS The example one of the board manufacturers had on their site to illustrate the problem of shorter turn radius on steeps goes like this. If you are riding a bike on a steep hill and you turn the wheel sharply either your front will will catch and send you head over handlebar or it will skid losing grip. Either way your forward momentum is too strong to be changed that quickly. This is the issue with the snowboard with short turn radiai. However if you only turn the handlebars a little bit you are still largely facing downhill skiers have a little bit more ability to increase their turn shape so for them it's easier. Still when I'm riding truly tough terrain I don't see even pro skiers carving.
 

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177cm
65kg + big backpack
Burton ions :
10.5 US
9.5 UK
28.5 JPN
43.5 EUR
285(2.5) CN
Downsize the boots first. It is very likely you can go down to 8.5-9 US. 30 cm waist is an overkill in your case.
I’ve ridden a custom board like Knapton Twin with 28.5 waist and 11.5 m or so sidecut radius and it ripped but I did feel it being sluggish on slow cat tracks. I ride downsized low profile boots at 9 US my custom board for Knapton riding will be around 27.6 waist and 13 m sidecut radius.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Wow thanks good explanation ! Truly. I understand what your are saying. I’ve seen it and experienced it.

Of course on very steep slope I rarely carv even on skis. We call them black runs. But on red runs it’s easier. (Then blue then green)

I experienced turns so sharp on my Burton custom that I sank my nose and crashed. 😅

I’ll go with 11m sr I think.

To hell short radiuses and skinny noodlely boards !
I like curves and I’ll just have to tilt the thing further to make it turn the way I want.

Thanks guys
Thanks lifeisgold 💪🏻
Let’s ride ! 🏂
 

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You can't fixate only on the constant radius of the turn/sidecut. The steeper the fall line gets, especially in uneven, choppy terrain, quickly snapping (relatively speaking) the board from one edge to the other is equally (or more) important. So something with a variable sidecut, with a larger/stable geometry up front followed by smaller/shorter radius toward the waist and that back.

There are some boards that offer big sidecuts with various radi making the sidecut. Ride Timeless, Commissioner, Smokescreen (essentially the same shapes) might be something you may want to try. My Timeless and Commissioner, with their 10M+ waist are super stable yet nimble when flicks are needed for line correction, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Downsize the boots first. It is very likely you can go down to 8.5-9 US. 30 cm waist is an overkill in your case.
I’ve ridden a custom board like Knapton Twin with 28.5 waist and 11.5 m or so sidecut radius and it ripped but I did feel it being sluggish on slow cat tracks. I ride downsized low profile boots at 9 US my custom board for Knapton riding will be around 27.6 waist and 13 m sidecut radius.
Downsize boots ??? You’ll have to explain this to me… because I already feel pretty tight in my 9.5 US ions…

30cm waist is huge but I’ll get used to it and it leaves me room to grow my style. It’s no biggie, I’ll build muscles, and eurocarv. But maybe 29 yes. I don’t want to buy a new board every year especially custom ones. Not every one can afford to have several boards. It’s my one board quiver and I’ll be fine with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You can't fixate only on the constant radius of the turn/sidecut. The steeper the fall line gets, especially in uneven, choppy terrain, quickly snapping (relatively speaking) the board from one edge to the other is equally (or more) important. So something with a variable sidecut, with a larger/stable geometry up front followed by smaller/shorter radius toward the waist and that back.

There are some boards that offer big sidecuts with various radi making the sidecut. Ride Timeless, Commissioner, Smokescreen (essentially the same shapes) might be something you may want to try. My Timeless and Commissioner, with their 10M+ waist are super stable yet nimble when flicks are needed for line correction, etc.
Yep I hear you. But I want a symmetrical true twin to ride both switch and regular.
So customized board is my only option. And the craftsman I work with only builds single sr boards…
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You can't fixate only on the constant radius of the turn/sidecut. The steeper the fall line gets, especially in uneven, choppy terrain, quickly snapping (relatively speaking) the board from one edge to the other is equally (or more) important. So something with a variable sidecut, with a larger/stable geometry up front followed by smaller/shorter radius toward the waist and that back.

There are some boards that offer big sidecuts with various radi making the sidecut. Ride Timeless, Commissioner, Smokescreen (essentially the same shapes) might be something you may want to try. My Timeless and Commissioner, with their 10M+ waist are super stable yet nimble when flicks are needed for line correction, etc.
Actually I happen to boot out while carving through uneven choppy terrain with the B custom. So this is the main reason for me to want a board that seems too wide : 30cm.
I’d like to cut right through obstacles like when I’m skiing ⛷.
 

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Hey as long as you're clear on the limitations you're placing on this deck, have at it.
I'd also say that I sorta call into question the board builder if they can't figure out a sidecut for you based on your riding style intentions... Twin for that kind of riding and that waist I'd be looking at something like a 7.8/9/7.8 degressive option. Get you into turns, but then layed all the way over it will turn like you want.
 
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