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If you are not riding switch 50% of the time then there's not much benefit in a symmetrical duck stance, other than that you are familiar with it. I've had surgery on the medial meniscus on my back leg and going even to 0 or -3 degrees on the back foot makes a big improvement for me in terms of pain. That and bindings with a canted base. If you are thinking about new bindings anyway, I can recommend Rome Katanas as they have some space age dampening material which is nice for the knees but also they ship with flat and canted footbeds in the box that take two seconds to change with no tools. You could even ride with them in your pocket and change halfway down a run to feel the difference or have one foot canted one flat (pretty sure Craig Kelly rode with only his rear foot canted FWIW).
Iirc, didn't Craig have one leg slightly shorter?
 

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On another point, when using Spark Afterburner Bindings, was getting some knee pain from them getting hammered. Put some eva foam on the top of the baseplate and it helped a lot. As for boots, I've found there is alot of adjustability of flex, lean going to AT Atomic Backlands. And you can do canting via the pucks. Also found that my Ed Vissure "Sole" inserts have a lot more shock absorption than the superfeet. One last thing, about inflammation can be a diet/hydration thing. I used to pre-dose with ibuprofen but no longer...see discussion of the What do you pack for lunch? | Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
 

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The fact that you’re otherwise athletic 365 days and the pain is only with snowboarding is key. Has to be due to the stance somehow. Sounds like stress in medial collateral ligament? Is that was PT thinks?

I ride with all canted foot beds because I’m 5’5” mostly torso and my stance width is 23”. My thinking is that the cant helps relieve lateral knee stress.

On the other hand if you’re riding duck, the back foot pointed back is a set up for medial knee stress. Do a test turn in the living room. In order to hit a hard heelside edge you rotate your shoulders toward the front heel edge. Instant medial knee stress. Switch your stance to ++. Even placing the back to 0 deg may help.
 

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Because structurally, there could be a soft tissue tear to the meniscus. That would make this thread null and void as we would now be able to diagnose the issue. Canting, etc isn’t going to fix a slight tear to a meniscus.

She also mentioned how much she works out, and put pressure on the joint. She could be beginning to see the onset of arthritis, something that would also show signs in an MRI or X Ray for that matter.

Im speaking from experience here. One visit to an orthopedic clinic would be wise if you really wanted to know what was going on, and how to offset the pain
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
You are corrrect on this direction. My physical therapist and I have considered early onset arthritis. I haven’t gotten an mri as the pain is only when I ride. He feels that the miniscus is at this point uninjured but pissed off. Trying to fix my riding to avoid further problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I regards to canting. Those of you that have done it. Are you lifting the arch or the outsole? I tend to supinate in shoes a little, but with my wider stance it sends me to a slight pronation. I don’t know which way to start with canting. Also thanks for everyone’s input. It’s given me a good direction to keep trying options.
 

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I regards to canting. Those of you that have done it. Are you lifting the arch or the outsole? I tend to supinate in shoes a little, but with my wider stance it sends me to a slight pronation. I don’t know which way to start with canting. Also thanks for everyone’s input. It’s given me a good direction to keep trying options.
I would definitely try to cant from the bindings rather than the boot. The aim of binding canting is for your lower leg to be more angled inward toward the centre line of your body i.e. pointing toward your hip joint. I've never done it but surely canting from inside your boot means the boot still stands vertically straight in the binding but your foot and leg are now fighting it from inside? Sounds uncomfortable at best. I imagine walking is not much fun either.

Someone has probably mentioned it but a narrower stance, even by an inch, does wonders for stress on the medial meniscus.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I am thinking the same thing, I feel like canting the boot could potentially cause an ankle problem. But I may try that first and see if it helps since it is easier than canting at the binding. I can't go any narrower. I went to 20 and was miserable. I don't think I would want to get used to it. But I did go from 22 to 21.
 

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I would definitely try to cant from the bindings rather than the boot. The aim of binding canting is for your lower leg to be more angled inward toward the centre line of your body i.e. pointing toward your hip joint. I've never done it but surely canting from inside your boot means the boot still stands vertically straight in the binding but your foot and leg are now fighting it from inside? Sounds uncomfortable at best. I imagine walking is not much fun either.

Someone has probably mentioned it but a narrower stance, even by an inch, does wonders for stress on the medial meniscus.
Yeah, one inch for me is the difference between lots of pain after two hours and none at all. I just worked through this a week or so ago. It's the best thing to try, specially because it's free.
 

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I went from a very forward positive angle on the back foot to a mellow +8 angle to get rid on knee pain, as a counter to the other examples here. It worked wonders...
I just got canted pucks for one of my splitboards and like them. I wish canting the whole binding was an easy option. I know Burton had an aluminum canting plate you could get back in the 90's but they were very rare/
 

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I went from a very forward positive angle on the back foot to a mellow +8 angle to get rid on knee pain, as a counter to the other examples here. It worked wonders...
I just got canted pucks for one of my splitboards and like them. I wish canting the whole binding was an easy option. I know Burton had an aluminum canting plate you could get back in the 90's but they were very rare/
Yeah I keep the back foot at 0 to +6 deg depending on the board. Too forward starts to hurt me too. Everyone’s knees are aligned differently. You need to find your own ideal. It’s trial and error.
 

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You are corrrect on this direction. My physical therapist and I have considered early onset arthritis. I haven’t gotten an mri as the pain is only when I ride. He feels that the miniscus is at this point uninjured but pissed off. Trying to fix my riding to avoid further problems.
No offense, but PTs playing Dr is funny to me. My PT, who graduated Duke mind you, tried to solve my knee issue saying it wasn’t a tear. Finally saw an orthopedic doc who specializes in knees. He ordered an MRI. Low and behold, torn meniscus and some early arthritis.

See a real doc
 

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It needs to heal before you see any improvement from changes, but narrower stance helped me. What set it off was the wider stance "forcing" me to land with a straight leg off jumps and drops if I was out of balance.
 

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Because structurally, there could be a soft tissue tear to the meniscus. That would make this thread null and void as we would now be able to diagnose the issue. Canting, etc isn’t going to fix a slight tear to a meniscus.

She also mentioned how much she works out, and put pressure on the joint. She could be beginning to see the onset of arthritis, something that would also show signs in an MRI or X Ray for that matter.

Im speaking from experience here. One visit to an orthopedic clinic would be wise if you really wanted to know what was going on, and how to offset the pain

A structural tear or arthritis that affects an active person in only one activity? Go on.

I second the rec to go see someone else like ortho sports but a tear causing issues with only one activity for someone active would be very unusual.

Also what if there is a small tear? What are you going to do with that info? Have surgery when it doesn't affect anything but snowboarding? That information is pretty much clinically useless.
 

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Correct. Front knee is solid.
A structural tear or arthritis that affects an active person in only one activity? Go on.

I second the rec to go see someone else like ortho sports but a tear causing issues with only one activity for someone active would be very unusual.

Also what if there is a small tear? What are you going to do with that info? Have surgery when it doesn't affect anything but snowboarding? That information is pretty much clinically useless.
It depends how you ride, but yes, a torn meniscus, since it covers the entire surface area of a joint, could be affected only in certain activities. I notice mine sitting in chair, putting pressure on my feet, at a 90 degree angle. But that’s where the tear was, and why I felt it only in that position to that pain level. That said, someone could tear their’s elsewhere consider it’s the cusion in between the entire joint.

The second is the so what that every surgeon would / should ask. Does it affect your happiness or ability to do something that makes you happy. Judging the title of the thread, yeah, it might be enough that a scope surgery is worth it for her.
 

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It depends how you ride, but yes, a torn meniscus, since it covers the entire surface area of a joint, could be affected only in certain activities. I notice mine sitting in chair, putting pressure on my feet, at a 90 degree angle. But that’s where the tear was, and why I felt it only in that position to that pain level. That said, someone could tear their’s elsewhere consider it’s the cusion in between the entire joint.

The second is the so what that every surgeon would / should ask. Does it affect your happiness or ability to do something that makes you happy. Judging the title of the thread, yeah, it might be enough that a scope surgery is worth it for her.
Per OP:

"I'm now a 44 year old fit female. I own a gym, been a trainer for 20 years and have a solid background in kinesiology and injury management. I also run and bike and lift year round. (Just giving some context that fitness isn't probably the problem.) "
-No issues running, biking, and lifting.
Hm. Interesting.

Or maybe it's because snowboarding requires a repetitive movement pattern where strain is felt when the joint is locked into a plane its no longer comfortable in. Sure, you have an injury, that sucks, but that doesn't mean that she does. It also doesn't mean that she 100% doesn't, but this is not how that works. But if the OP is only bothered by one activity which is load bearing, repetitive, and has part of the kinetic chain locked into place (ala bindings).... then maybe it makes sense to start with looking at alignment.

When someone tells me they lift and own a gym, I figure they don't skip leg day.
Stress, strain, microtrauma, and tears are all very different things.

And just like that, I'm done arguing with you :)

Not a doc, but an MRI seems like a reasonable thing to get more of a detailed pic of the soft tissue...especially done after a day of riding when it's inflamed.
I don't believe that would be helpful.

The fact that you’re otherwise athletic 365 days and the pain is only with snowboarding is key. Has to be due to the stance somehow.
Listen to knife guy.

Also, dude. 23 inch stance. What? Yeezus.
 

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Per OP:

"I'm now a 44 year old fit female. I own a gym, been a trainer for 20 years and have a solid background in kinesiology and injury management. I also run and bike and lift year round. (Just giving some context that fitness isn't probably the problem.) "
-No issues running, biking, and lifting.
Hm. Interesting.

Or maybe it's because snowboarding requires a repetitive movement pattern where strain is felt when the joint is locked into a plane its no longer comfortable in. Sure, you have an injury, that sucks, but that doesn't mean that she does. It also doesn't mean that she 100% doesn't, but this is not how that works. But if the OP is only bothered by one activity which is load bearing, repetitive, and has part of the kinetic chain locked into place (ala bindings).... then maybe it makes sense to start with looking at alignment.

When someone tells me they lift and own a gym, I figure they don't skip leg day.
Stress, strain, microtrauma, and tears are all very different things.

And just like that, I'm done arguing with you :)



I don't believe that would be helpful.



Listen to knife guy.

Also, dude. 23 inch stance. What? Yeezus.
Nobody is arguing but you Dr. Clueless. Suggesting someone see an Orthopedic, is the 100% responsible thing to do to make sure you aren’t further damaging an existing soft tissue injury. And yes, many knee injuries present only in certain activities. Running is a straight line activity, that requires zero cutting or explosion in quick changes of direction. A bent, or repetitively bending knee with the slight twisted motion of a carve as you work through an arc
, is a way to feel a medial or posterior meniscal injury.

As I also mentioned, the other could be arthritis, which typically requires just an x-ray to see the gap in the knee joint, which would highlight amount of soft tissue remaining. A sizeable gap is good. A narrow to almost non-existent gap is arthritis.

Wouldn’t it be good to know what was going on so you can manage the care? If it is arthritis, you can inject fluid that would last months as a lubricant, taking all pain of snowboarding away.

And I still want to point out that any ethical doctor is going to ask what your goals are, and whether your lifestyle and happiness are affected. They dont rush you to surgery. Most good ones avoid the risk of surgery if your lifestyle is grossly unaffected. They do however identify the underlying issue, which helps with care.

Sometimes I ask myself what I am doing and just stop. Im likely talking to a park rat, whose highest education level is HS if lucky, that only remembers the “boobs” portion of their science class.

Someone says their knee hurts during a sports activity chronically, and this guy suggests it’s unnecessary to see a doctor. Can’t make that ish up. Please get educated. This is the degradation of society.
 
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