[jsil]

I moved to the mountains two season ago and bought my first board (after learning to snowboard twenty years ago). I'm looking to get into something with full camber that can rail carves. I've watched a lot of the videos coming out of Japan with their style of riding and it really speaks to me. I enjoy ripping big carves and honestly enjoying playing all over the mountain without just straight-lining and bombing. There's a place for it, but I feel that the magic of the turn is what really gets me. My first step is experimenting with double positive binding angles (never tried them) and seeing how that effects my riding. I do ride a bit of switch, and prefer a board that can at least do it when the need arises (landing switch, easier route through the trees switching over, etc.) I think the perfect board for me would be something that you size down, can still handle speed, can really hold an edge, has a large sidecut that can rail turns, a bigger nose and maybe some early rise to still handle some pow, and can handle a bit of switch riding (buttering/screwing around too). I tend to enjoy shorter wider boards in my limited experience, but I'm not married to them. I don't have enough experience to be sure, but I do know I don't want some super hard charger that is only happy at 50mph.

Stats:
5'9" - 155lbs - 9.5US Boot - Adv. Intermediate / Advanced

My current quiver is:

Never Summer Proto Type II - 154cm (Ripsaw Rocker Camber) - First modern board I rode since old-school camber boards twenty years ago. Seems pretty solid all around but doesn't really wow me. I think I would have preferred the 157cm. It gets a little squirrelly at very high speeds. Still solid and would recommend to someone progressing.

Capita Thunderstick - 155cm (flat w/very mild camber) - First experience with softer park type boards. Solid ride, but I'm not getting into park much as I thought I would. Falling on hard pack from up high sucks in your late 30s. If I'm good enough at some point to huck a method off of some natural features that's enough for me. That being said, I still take a ride through park once and a while w/friends.

Never Summer Swift - 157cm (Fusion Rocker Camber) - To be honest, I haven't loved this board as much as I'd thought I would. It isn't quite as maneuverable in the trees as I'd hoped (compared to shorter boards), and it's not great on the chopped up groomers on the way to good snow. It slays pow though so it would be a great option if you constantly find yourself in wide open pow fields, but my local resort (Park City) has a lot more pow in the trees and less open bowls than some spots. It does pretty well on groomers, but my board experience is fairly limited so hard to say. If this thing was better in chopped up resort snow I think I'd like it a lot more. I'm realizing that while having a quiver is nice, a dedicated resort pow board still needs to rip sloppy groomers and handle chopped up snow and chunder really well. I would sacrifice *some* float in deep pow for that.

Ride Warpig - 148cm (flat w/very mild camber) - I really enjoy this board, but I don't love it when the snow is hard. I think with some more camber this would be my board of choice, but the edge hold in sub-par conditions leaves something to be desired. It can definitely rip though and I do enjoy it. It definitely does better at speed and would be nice to find something that was still as much fun going 20mph as it is going 35mph+.


Below is my short list which I'm sure I'll add to with your responses, please feel free to comment on any and all if you have experience with them. What other boards would you guys recommend I look at? I know that a Gentemstick or Moss Snowstick would probably be ideal, but they are a LOT of money. Unless a swallow tail significantly adds to the ride, I'd prefer a non-swallow for better switch (if that's a thing).

- Elevated Surfcraft Goldfish / Redtail Hawk (love the idea of these, but a little pricey if I can't find one used)
- K2 Simple Pleasures
- Korua Shapes - Cafe Racer / Tranny Finder
- United Shaped Cadet
- YES Optimistic (may be too aggressive for what I'm looking for?)

Any and all advice would be great in regards to what I'm looking for.

BTW I have a pair of Union Stratas and a Ride Vice bindings if that matters and I'm trying to break in a pair of ThirtyTwo TM-3s in the off-season.

Thanks!

 

[drblast]

I don't have enough experience to be sure, but I do know I don't want some super hard charger that is only happy at 50mph.

You might want to re-think that if your goal is carving and double-positive angles. The real carvers are those guys with the long skinny boards and hard boots, and they ride those boards for a reason.

Kind of like "there's no replacement for displacement" carving on a shorter board is do-able, but it's just a whole lot more fun on a longer board. If you haven't ridden a long camber board recently I'd at least demo one before buying. Longer boards can be faster, but one benefit of carving with them is that you can carve much harder at lower speeds than on a short board.

I'm only saying this since you have a quiver already and "long carving board" isn't represented there.

 

[jsil]

You might want to re-think that if your goal is carving and double-positive angles. The real carvers are those guys with the long skinny boards and hard boots, and they ride those boards for a reason.

Kind of like "there's no replacement for displacement" carving on a shorter board is do-able, but it's just a whole lot more fun on a longer board. If you haven't ridden a long camber board recently I'd at least demo one before buying. Longer boards can be faster, but one benefit of carving with them is that you can carve much harder at lower speeds than on a short board.

I'm only saying this since you have a quiver already and "long carving board" isn't represented there.

While I want to carve, I don't want to only carve. I also appreciate the locked in yet still slashy style of the gentem/moss riders (in comparison to straight carving hard booters) as it looks like a lot of fun. I'm trying to find a balance between carving specific boarder-cross boards and something that I can use all over the mountain and still lay down better carves than on my current equipment. I guess you could call it the search for a "all-mountain carving board" rather than "all-mountain freestyle" that a lot of boards are labeled. That's why I specifically noted the riding styles of the Japanese riders rather than hard boot / boarder-cross guys. While I'd enjoy trying that out at some point, I feel like it may not be versatile enough for me. That being said, I definitely want to try one of those longer camber carving boards as the idea of slower speed deep carves is appealing.

I do appreciate your opinion though and am hoping to demo a lot of different carving boards at some point in this upcoming season.

 

[jsil]

You might want to re-think that if your goal is carving and double-positive angles. The real carvers are those guys with the long skinny boards and hard boots, and they ride those boards for a reason.

Kind of like "there's no replacement for displacement" carving on a shorter board is do-able, but it's just a whole lot more fun on a longer board. If you haven't ridden a long camber board recently I'd at least demo one before buying. Longer boards can be faster, but one benefit of carving with them is that you can carve much harder at lower speeds than on a short board.

I'm only saying this since you have a quiver already and "long carving board" isn't represented there.

Also, I'm not opposed to selling off boards in my quiver that I don't ride or have been replaced with better options. All of my boards were used or off-season sales. I'm definitely not attached to them.

 

[Snowdaddy]

I moved to the mountains two season ago and bought my first board (after learning to snowboard twenty years ago). I'm looking to get into something with full camber that can rail carves. I've watched a lot of the videos coming out of Japan with their style of riding and it really speaks to me. I enjoy ripping big carves and honestly enjoying playing all over the mountain without just straight-lining and bombing. There's a place for it, but I feel that the magic of the turn is what really gets me. My first step is experimenting with double positive binding angles (never tried them) and seeing how that effects my riding. I do ride a bit of switch, and prefer a board that can at least do it when the need arises (landing switch, easier route through the trees switching over, etc.) I think the perfect board for me would be something that you size down, can still handle speed, can really hold an edge, has a large sidecut that can rail turns, a bigger nose and maybe some early rise to still handle some pow, and can handle a bit of switch riding (buttering/screwing around too). I tend to enjoy shorter wider boards in my limited experience, but I'm not married to them. I don't have enough experience to be sure, but I do know I don't want some super hard charger that is only happy at 50mph.

Stats:
5'9" - 155lbs - 9.5US Boot - Adv. Intermediate / Advanced

- Elevated Surfcraft Goldfish / Redtail Hawk (love the idea of these, but a little pricey if I can't find one used)
- K2 Simple Pleasures
- Korua Shapes - Cafe Racer / Tranny Finder
- United Shaped Cadet
- YES Optimistic (may be too aggressive for what I'm looking for?)

Any and all advice would be great in regards to what I'm looking for.

BTW I have a pair of Union Stratas and a Ride Vice bindings if that matters and I'm trying to break in a pair of ThirtyTwo TM-3s in the off-season.

Thanks!

Even if I'm not being an advanced rider or an expert carver I couldn't agree more. The turning is where it's at Both in powder and on piste.

When I think about snowsurfing I think about carving different sized carves depending on the terrain. For some I think it's surfing in the powder. Sowsurfing seems like such a general term. Maybe a fluid kind of riding where you ride the features and terrain

What's a long sidecut in your opinion? I'm wondering since you're talking about shorter boards. Of the Korua boards, maybe you should have a look at the 159 Pencil? It has a moderate taper for a Korua. I ride the 164 Pencil Plus. It's a super cool board but hard to ride in choppy resort snow, the classic version could be better. I'm not sure that you have to pick the Cafe Racer or the Tranny Finder.

I've noticed that some of the Gentems and Moss have a much shorter radius towards the tail. The Korua is not like that, it has a longer sidecut towards the tail. Personally I love my Korua but wouldn't have minded a bit of less taper (like on the 159 Pencil). The Pencil also rides powder very nicely.

I looked up the Moss U5:

LENGTH: 1570
R. LENGTH: 864
EF. EDGE: 1060
SISDECUT: 9800/6900
NOSE/TAIL: 310/262/292
STANCE WIDTH: 540 (520-640)
SET BACK: -46.5

Thats's quite a variable sidecut... and a Korua should ride the exact opposite from this, it turns harder in the start of the turn when you ride on your front foot. What seems really cool about the Moss is the taper combined with a shorter sidecut in the tail.

Yes (like the Pick Your Line and Hybrid, Nitro and Maybe K2 have some boards that have a shorter sidecut towards the tail. I've never tried them, but maybe they ride a little like those Japanese boards (which I also never rode... haha).

Another board that comes to mind is the Nidecker Area. From what I understand it's also very good at absorbing resort chop and I'd really like to try one out.

You might want to re-think that if your goal is carving and double-positive angles. The real carvers are those guys with the long skinny boards and hard boots, and they ride those boards for a reason.

Kind of like "there's no replacement for displacement" carving on a shorter board is do-able, but it's just a whole lot more fun on a longer board. If you haven't ridden a long camber board recently I'd at least demo one before buying. Longer boards can be faster, but one benefit of carving with them is that you can carve much harder at lower speeds than on a short board.

I'm only saying this since you have a quiver already and "long carving board" isn't represented there.

But... the "snowsurfing" isn't really riding like the eurocarving hardbooters.

Valid points though. If not only for the longer effective edge and the possibility for a longer sidecut. Without being an expert carver I think that short, stiff boards with a shorter sidecut isn't really the best idea for the "snowsurfing". You want the board to be able to bend into into the turning radius and a stiffer board makes that harder. So... a stiff board with a short radius sidecut is the hardest to turn right since it needs more force to bend into a much smaller radius.

 

[Nivek]

I have been through this and continue to search for western boards built to turn like Japanese ones. They turn different. It's hard to quantify.

What I have ridden that let's me get what I feel like is a similar feel to Moss, Gentem, Tj...

K2 Simple Pleaures, Rome Ravine, K2 Overboard, Burton Hometown Hero, Gnu Hyper Kyarve.

A couple I have not ridden but have some high hopes for are the Yes Y and Gnu NuZoid. The Y being a "lower end" Optimistic might make it just soft enough to add the right amount of playfulness. The Zoid would be on this list if Gnu still made it, so the NuZoid being a Zoid mid wide has me very excited.

 

[Snowdaddy]

I have been through this and continue to search for western boards built to turn like Japanese ones. They turn different. It's hard to quantify.

What I have ridden that let's me get what I feel like is a similar feel to Moss, Gentem, Tj...

K2 Simple Pleaures, Rome Ravine, K2 Overboard, Burton Hometown Hero, Gnu Hyper Kyarve.

A couple I have not ridden but have some high hopes for are the Yes Y and Gnu NuZoid. The Y being a "lower end" Optimistic might make it just soft enough to add the right amount of playfulness. The Zoid would be on this list if Gnu still made it, so the NuZoid being a Zoid mid wide has me very excited.

How is the flex pattern on the Japanese boards in general? I'm just speculating that maybe they have a softer tail in combination with the shorter sidecut there...

 

[jsil]

When I think about snowsurfing I think about carving different sized carves depending on the terrain. For some I think it's surfing in the powder. Sowsurfing seems like such a general term. Maybe a fluid kind of riding where you ride the features and terrain

What's a long sidecut in your opinion?

Agree with the fluid kind of riding, that's what I'm after and that's what I'm realizing is my favorite style of riding. The reason I'm not as interested in hardboot carving is because it seems like that style of riding requires mostly freshly groomed runs and doesn't take into account much of the terrain which is not what I'm going for.

Like you said, it really does depend on the flex of the board, length, effective edge, etc. Some boards with 7M sidecut radii carve better than 9M sidecut radii just due to flex (torsional and end to end). A lot of the boards Japanese "snowsurfer" style riders have are shorter and wider, but they still have long effective edges due to things like swallow tails or different tail shapes and are setback quite a bit (but often still centered on the sidecut).

But... the "snowsurfing" isn't really riding like the eurocarving hardbooters.

Agree with that. It's quite different. Also, I completely agree that no one is carving as hard as people on boardercross boards w/hard boots, but it's not the style I want to go for (but I'm happy to try it one day if I get the opportunity).

 

[jsil]

I have been through this and continue to search for western boards built to turn like Japanese ones. They turn different. It's hard to quantify.

What I have ridden that let's me get what I feel like is a similar feel to Moss, Gentem, Tj...

K2 Simple Pleaures, Rome Ravine, K2 Overboard, Burton Hometown Hero, Gnu Hyper Kyarve.

A couple I have not ridden but have some high hopes for are the Yes Y and Gnu NuZoid. The Y being a "lower end" Optimistic might make it just soft enough to add the right amount of playfulness. The Zoid would be on this list if Gnu still made it, so the NuZoid being a Zoid mid wide has me very excited.

Thanks for the feedback. This is exactly the kind of discussion I wanted to start. BTW, I read through all the posts on "snowsurfing" "japan riding" etc on the forum before making this one. I couldn't find the information I was looking for and I was sure there were some others in the same position as I am.

What of the Japanese style boards have you ridden to compare? Just curious as I haven't had the opportunity.

I was reading a bit about the K2 Overboard last night. I was just kind of put off by the 165 length for tight trees, but as every board is different, it may be OK depending on the torsional flex and sidecut. We tend to have a good amount of moguled up trees with tough conditions between pow dumps which is why I favored the shorter boards. May be an issue of technique though too.

The Yes Y looks interesting!

 

[Kijima]

I just wrote a huge reply and lost it before it posted lol.
Just quickly. There will be 2 more Japanese made options before winter this season.
The Taiyaki 138 and Taiyaki twin 138 that I will be making with my very own hands. :grin:

 

[jsil]

I just wrote a huge reply and lost it before it posted lol.
Just quickly. There will be 2 more Japanese made options before winter this season.
The Taiyaki 138 and Taiyaki twin 138 that I will be making with my very own hands. :grin:

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and info on your boards.

Unless I'm on my phone, I tend to type long replies in word and copy and paste after losing a few big ones in the past.

 

[Kijima]

Shameless plug lol. For stoke more than trying go sell shit. Doing business in Japan is crazy expensive so thats why prices seem so high compared to other international markets.
What that means is I dont expect to sell many outside Japan which frees me of the burden of needing to push my shit on here.
Anything I say is purely based on stoke, I really really love this stuff .

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/zfwlOlx
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/8yVVjbM

 

[jsil]

Shameless plug lol. For stoke more than trying go sell shit. Doing business in Japan is crazy expensive so thats why prices seem so high compared to other international markets.
What that means is I dont expect to sell many outside Japan which frees me of the burden of needing to push my shit on here.
Anything I say is purely based on stoke, I really really love this stuff .

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/zfwlOlx
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/8yVVjbM

Amazing looking board and sick graphics. What are the specs of it?

Also, any production boards or boards that you can find more easily in the US that you would compare to it? I doubt I could afford one of your rides.

 

[smellysell]

Shameless plug lol. For stoke more than trying go sell shit. Doing business in Japan is crazy expensive so thats why prices seem so high compared to other international markets.
What that means is I dont expect to sell many outside Japan which frees me of the burden of needing to push my shit on here.
Anything I say is purely based on stoke, I really really love this stuff .

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/zfwlOlx
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/8yVVjbM

So rad! Someday when I win the lottery...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Kijima]

Amazing looking board and sick graphics. What are the specs of it?

Also, any production boards or boards that you can find more easily in the US that you would compare to it? I doubt I could afford one of your rides.

Come to Japan and walk in to my workshop with Japanese money and its easy lol. I can look after the boys if it happens like that :grin:

This is my prototype which I made as wide as possible with the base material that I had in stock which was 320mm.
I wanted width at the inserts so I started to play around with short effective edge lengths. The shorter the edge the wider the board can be at the inserts for a given base material width so that was my drive to play with what people considered too short to carve.
It turns out that 1m of edge is plenty of traction so the Taiyaki has a 100cm edge, 35cm nose and 3cm tail. Width is nose 32.5cm, waist 30.2cm, tail 32.2cm.
Mine is 12m radius. I can do from 6m to 18m radius easily.
Flex is fun bamboo. No planks here bro :grin:

Taiyaki twin will be 100cm edge with 19cm nose and 19cm tail.

Saying that, I have some custom color base and sidewall being made by crown this month, the base material is wider allowing boards as wide as 35cm.

 

[Rip154]

Are the inserts on the snackfish offset or is it just the photo angle?

 

[Kijima]

Are the inserts on the snackfish offset or is it just the photo angle?

The inserts are offset and reduced width on that board.
40x25 pattern.
I did this to allow me a very wide range of binding movement.
As I was learning to carve I would set up all to to toe, or all to the heel. It helped me a lot in soft snow conditions as this board was wide enough for my US10 boot but only in firm snow.

Nice eye you have there Rip :grin:

 

[dtbrown]

Should check out Ryan Knapton on YouTube. He's an amazing carver with ridiculous butters and gives tips and board recommendations. I'd recommend to have two boards. One for carving and one for all mountain days. https://instagram.com/ryan_knapton?igshid=ynd1u12bqd72

 

[Nivek]

Knapton is good at one kind of carving. And I've seen him basically state that though can't carve deep on regular width boards. Which he used to ride a Custom X btw. He gets a kickback every time he makes a successful referral to Donek. Keep that in mind if you ever do ask for advice.

 

[MrDavey2Shoes]

Knapton is good at one kind of carving. And I've seen him basically state that though can't carve deep on regular width boards. Which he used to ride a Custom X btw. He gets a kickback every time he makes a successful referral to Donek. Keep that in mind if you ever do ask for advice.

Do you think it’s a foot size issue or a technique issue that limits him to super wide boards?