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Yeah, these liners shouldn't pack out. I just get really bad toe bang in those liners.

Got a bit better with a bontex board, but they just fit a bit bigger imho. Who the F even knows...
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Yeah, these liners shouldn't pack out. I just get really bad toe bang in those liners.

Got a bit better with a bontex board, but they just fit a bit bigger imho. Who the F even knows...
So I got the Burton Photon Boa and Ride Lasso Pro today. Both are eh. Photon pinches super tight and stiff around the heel, but it's way too low and way too painful. It's an odd grip position and my heel can slip out super easily.

The Lasso Pro's are pretty nice and I like wearing them more, but it has almost nothing internally gripping my heel. Not sure how to properly test it without actually riding though.

I triied on the Burton Photons again and it's more comfortable than the first time, and has better hold than the Lasso Pro's. Construction quality is also 10/10 compared to the Lasso Pro's. Lassos got uneven sloppily glued on soles, cuffs and tongue different shapes and not centered, velcro on one line missing a stitching, and some stitching on one liner has a loose thread. That all will probably amount to not many issues over the lifetime of the boot, but I hate paying $350+ for a pair of boots and not having the quality of construction to show for it. Meanwhile the Burtons are immaculate, and also I love that they use metal rings for the liner harness. It makes the lace slip through easily and you never need a pull tab to loosen those laces, your foot just slips right out.

The Burtons are pretty stiff though and the tongue of the liner was almost painful when I tried leaning my shins forward. I might stick with the Lassos this season if the K2 Maysis isn't any better tomorrow.

Also, the Lasso Pro liner is pretty sweet. That wrap around is convenient, but I'm always worried about a liner that has no harness in the shell. Over time I worry about it being too loose.

How do you check for heel hold by the way? Usually I don't get any when I just stand like I am riding and lean into a fake toeside turn. But if I take my foot off the ground and point my toes, I can feel how easily I slip out of a boot, and usually it feels super loose. That's my go-to test. The Lasso Pros were much looser in that regard.
 

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You're going to get heel lift if you try doing calf raises in a boot even if the heel hold is good. It's not really a comparable movement. It's more about rolling the foot while pressing it into the tongue of the boot.
 

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Nah but it's to simulate the weight of the board and bindings I guess
That is not a simulation that compares to what happens while snowboarding. Probably doing that made you decide against several boots that would have been fine.

Lasso and Photons are both great options though. I have a set of photons that's causing me pain in the heel as well but the heel hold is ridiculously good. I put a tennis ball in it against the J bars last night to see if it'll help. They did get better after heat molding but it was still painful. I'm confident the tennis ball might fix my heel pinch issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
That is not a simulation that compares to what happens while snowboarding. Probably doing that made you decide against several boots that would have been fine.

Lasso and Photons are both great options though. I have a set of photons that's causing me pain in the heel as well but the heel hold is ridiculously good. I put a tennis ball in it against the J bars last night to see if it'll help. They did get better after heat molding but it was still painful. I'm confident the tennis ball might fix my heel pinch issue.
I'm thinking about keeping the Photons if the K2 Maysis that arrive today aren't as good. You're right about the hold simulation. Between the Photon and the Lasso Pro, The Photon is overall more comfortable but it has that somewhat painful heel pinch. The Lasso Pro just feels like nothing one way or another; not comfortable but not uncomfortable. Definitely less heel hold though.

I'll get the Photon heat molded but not sure if it will matter how my shop does it. They use 32's heat devices and Burton recommends only using something called a therm-ic heater that authorized Burton sellers have. My shop doesn't sell Burton anything though.
 

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I'll get the Photon heat molded but not sure if it will matter how my shop does it. They use 32's heat devices and Burton recommends only using something called a therm-ic heater that authorized Burton sellers have. My shop doesn't sell Burton anything though.
Eh it should be fine essentially same thing. It will help for sure with the heel pain. eventually it will break in and be fine. Or else you can do the tennis ball thing over night seems to help make the pain go away without sacrificing the heel hold.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
K2 Maysis too stiff above my toes and the conda system kills the top of my foot, rip

The Photon so far has been the most comfortable and felt the most snug around the ankle and heel. My worry is longevity since it has no articulation and I've seen that it crumbles and becomes weak quickly. But oh well, it fits. I wish some high tech liner was invented where there is a harness internally that wraps around your foot and pulls it into the liner. Seems tricky though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 · (Edited)
Got the photons heat fit just now. Numb feet after 5 minutes while fitting. Yeah my feet SUCK. I don't even know where the problem is but eventually my toes feel so painful and bulging

Also not sure why but the internal j-bars are uneven between feet and I don't think it's from molding. They have the same height in the left foot but in the right one is super low compared to the other. Might be causing the pinch because that foot was much number than the other.
 

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Got the photons heat fit just now. Numb feet after 5 minutes while fitting. Yeah my feet SUCK. I don't even know where the problem is but eventually my toes feel so painful and bulging

Also not sure why but the internal j-bars are uneven between feet and I don't think it's from molding. They have the same height in the left foot but in the right one is super low compared to the other. Might be causing the pinch because that foot was much number than the other.
My left foot J bars seemed to be bulging more than my right foot. Right foot probably has a perfect fit but the J bars are were causing issued on my left foot. Have had the tennis ball in there for almost 24 hours. I may try it on tonight and let you know how it feels.
 

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I wish some high tech liner was invented where there is a harness internally that wraps around your foot and pulls it into the liner. Seems tricky though.
I think that's the idea of the solomon str8t jacket which you seemed to have a love hate thing going on with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 · (Edited)
Seems like the j-bar was inserted differently idk. It seems like it's almost made of rubber though and I don't think heat fitting works properly on it. One boot definitely has more heel play and lift thanks to that too. I think when I was kicking my heel back in the boot, it might have pushed the bars out of their best positioning :eek:

Also, I'm starting to think I can't go by my exact mondo measurement. My toes ALWAYS curl in all these boots, and even after heat fitting the Burtons my toes curl. If my toes curl after a heat fit, I can't see a further break in making it any better. But I tried Wiredsport's recommendation of not using any lifts under my toes and I think that was bad advice. Even when standing normally with knees bent, my toes curled, but I tried a lift and it pushed my heel back it seemed, and my toes uncurled. I only did it for a second to test it, but I ended up going with Wiredsport's advice. I think I should have just listed the toe lift/ramp, and now I ended up with a really bad heat fit. They charged $40 for it too and I can't go back to do it again. They might do it again for free, but I can't find much info about Burton liners and re-molding, so I don't know if it's a good idea or not or if it's gonna kill the life of the boot.

Salomon fit great but yeah, the str8 jacket system in my pair was improperly manufactured or designed. It 100% was not properly made.
 

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Your feet curling is not necessarily bad thing. If you bend your knees while standing up that should make more room with your toes straightening out. Also the boots will pack out with time! If you get one too big it will only get bigger and then you really won't have heel hold with tons of pain.

You have a little case of OCD I am gathering here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 · (Edited)
I mean even when I bend my knees there is still a ton of curl.

Yeah, boots break in with time, but having a heat mold change nothing in the comfort or pressure in the toes makes me think the boots are too short for me. I don't know if I should do a second heat fit or just rock these.
 

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You can try it again. But maybe @Wiredsport can help determine if you did your measurements correctly.
 

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@WigMar might be able to help as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
I think a lot of boots have really stiff j-bars or heel-hold foam that pinch too tight and push too hard. That probably pushes my foot forward to curl, even after a heat fit, while also pinching too tight and causing circulation issues.
 

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I like to be in the smallest boots I can manage. At first, my toes are definitely curled up a bit. There's some mods you can make to ease that pressure until the liners pack out, ans some mods you can do to speed that process along. It's important to really seat your heel into the heel pocket by kicking your heel on the ground before you lace the boots up. Maybe settling that heel pocket issue will be as important as making more space in the toe box.

Heel risers- I make my own out of a few layers of adhesive foam. You can cut some out of cardboard to see how they feel before you go all out with the foam. Raising the heel seats my skinny heels into the heel pocket better while pulling my toes away from the front. Add more foam until you get the height you want. As the boots pack out, you can remove layers of foam to back off the lift a bit.

More molding- you can mold liners multiple times. For hotspots, you can heat the spot with a heat gun or burly hair dryer. The EVA will get soft and then start to puff up a bit. Adding some foam to your toes when molding can bump that area out a but. Same theory goes for the heel pocket.

If you still need room, you can cut a little slit into the front of the liner where your toes are smashed. Maybe ripping off the stock j bars and adding some less aggressive ones could help seat your heel better. Perhaps a lower volume insole would be worth looking into as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 · (Edited)
Do your toes usually curl even after a heat mold? And when y'all kick your heel down are you stomping it down, or hitting the backside heel into the ground?

And is it a bad idea to use a wood plank as a toe ramp while molding? It seems like it really helps push that heel back, but Wired recommends against it.
 
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