Vegan vs Snowboarding

I've been vegetarian (strict, no cheating ever) for close to 25 years at this point.
This is gonna be one of my level-headed/boring replies. If you wanna make fun of vegans, please just skip my post... no problem. Don't read this as a heated reply, don't assume I'm on a soapbox trying to convince/convert people. I'm really not, this is a discussion, nothing more and I really don't care if you guys don't agree with me here.

I'm not a "preachy" vegetarian, I never tried to convert anyone (ever) and I avoid talking about it unless somebody asks questions when they realize that I am (I'm not one to go around telling people about it either). For me, it's a personal choice and I do realize that it's not for everyone and comes with a lot of challenges. This is not intended as a preachy post in any way shape or form... this is just an illustration of a point regarding this discussion.

When you're vegan/vegetarian and believe in it strongly enough, you still have to understand (unless you're really deluded) that there will be some compromises you have to make (minor or major, depending on you). I see it as similar (but to a much lesser degree) as the people opposed to bigger china-made goods (Snowboards? Guitars? Cars? etc) on principle but can't avoid using a computer/phone/TV/coffeemaker (basically everything in their life) that was made in China.

I refuse (for many reasons) to consume meat in any form. But the harvest of the grain used to make the bread I eat (same for the beans, soy for tofu, etc), usually comes with the (unintended/accidental) killing of rodents who reside in the fields. It's one example (and I could use many more to illustrate my point) that shows that, well, the reality is that eating/living comes with a death-toll. The fact remains that, while I don't want to eat meat, I still have to eat and I sure as heck won't grow my own wheat and start making my bread from scratch. Most goods I consume are delivered by truck, which also kills a lot of critters on the roads, pollute the envrionment which then decimates populations of living creatures, etc...

The reality of these examples doesn't make my lifestyle choice (yes, nobody's forcing me to be a vegetarian and I don't impose it on my kids or spouse either, it'll be their choice when/if they ever decide to do so) pointless, nor does it make me a hypocrite. The fact that I realize that no matter what I do, my living in all its aspects (not just food) has an impact (often negative) on the world around me and its inhabitants, doesn't mean that the efforts I do make to have positive impacts are negated or irrelevant. Nothing's ever perfect no matter how hard we try. Doesn't mean we have to just sit back and let it all go to hell...

That's one of the fronts on which I chose to fight some of the problems I see around me. Some agree, many don't and it's all ok.

I see it the same way for what's being discussed here. You sometimes have to pick and chose your battles. Sometimes you do it right, sometimes you could do it better, sometimes you're wrong. But no matter what your philosophy is, it's VERY HARD (huh huh) to live completly outside of society and the means and products that are at our disposal because the alternatives are usually either complicated or almost inaccessible for most people...

Just my 0.02$

snowyc said:

Difficult to argue with you when you start with such a statement .
What usually triggers long discussions/arguments about things like this is lack of acceptance that people (e.g. vegan) DO see that it's not black and white.

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I know. And, just like most of you, I can't efffin' stand the preachy people (on either side).

Preachy vegetarians/vegans annoy me to no end because they actually hurt their (mine too I guess?) cause so much. I mean, tell me of one instance you heard/read someone go "meat is murder", "you should go vegan", etc and it actually worked or didn't end in almost everyone go the exact opposite way and say "well I'm gonna go eat twice as much steak tonight you dumb f*ck!" and "PETA means People Eating Tasty Animals"

If they're so smart (they seem to think they're smarter than everyone else no?) why don't any of them realize that they're going about it the absolute worst way and reinforcing the stereotype? (my theory is that you never hear the smart ones but that makes it seem like I'm calling myself smart so...)

Just for fun: do you know how many times I've told somebody they shouldn't eat meat? Zero. Do you know how many times I've been told I should eat meat or that I was stupid for not doing so? too many to count... there really are preachy dumbf*cks on both sides of the debate(s)...

I think more people would be interested in vegetarian or vegan meals if they were just shown the tasty ones that don't rely on the fake vegan "cheese" etc, AND they don't get preached at.
I have met friendly vegans, who don't push their views in peoples' faces, and I've also met the Aggressive "we are right, everyone else is wrong, and the enemy" vegans.
The Aggressive Vegans don't do themselves or anyone else any favours by their attitude.
If people see that tasty and nutritious meals can be made without meat, and are cheaper, then people are more likely to eat vegetarian once or twice a week. Lasting change takes time and finding common ground, IMO.

Interesting to note that Almond "Milk", which some vegos and vegans seem to like, actually can cause a lot of deaths in bee colonies whose hives are placed in almond orchards to pollinate them. That definitely goes counter to vegans eliminating anything from their diet, that is connected to exploitation, harm or death to living organisms.

BBQ jackfruit is delicious and the vegan restaurant in Bellingham has a lot of delicious options.

I think vegan stuff would be more appealing if it weren't always trying to be the "vegan equivalent" of something. Make me tasty veggies I can eat and enjoy and I won't miss meat.

I just built some raised beds this past weekend for a vegetable garden. The appeal of growing my own food is huge. The way we consume meat isn't sustainable or healthy, and this is coming from someone who is repulsed by the taste and texture of most vegetables and orders the Porterhouse for Two when I go to a steakhouse for my birthday.

Overall I'm striving for "less" in my life. Less waste, less environmental impact, less red meat eating (I love red meat so much so this is difficult), intermittent fasting, lots of exercise. But overall I feel so much better and healthier that the heavy consumption and "fuck it all" attitude has very little appeal to me.

Still, like Surgeon so eloquently put it, you can't really live in the world today and not have some kind of negative impact with something you do, so people who get on a high horse about it...meh. Be kind.

I think people are misunderstanding what the alternative meats were created for. They're not for people who already think veggie diets are delicious, there's no reason to try and draw the crowd you already have.

I HATE vegetables, like a 5 year old child level hate. The earthy "planty" taste most of them share is extremely off putting to me. I'm the person who wont even eat a salad or eat a burger with lettuce.

HOWEVER, the SO is vegetarian and as a result I've tried many of the veggie burgers, meat alternatives, etc. And it wasn't until the Beyond and Impossible meats came out that I could even begin to eat a meal that wasnt heavily meat based.

Now I'll often make Beyond meat chili to eat with, I can go to a vegetarian restaurant with her now as long as they offer one of these new meat variants. So now because of the alternatives they're able to actually draw in the meat eaters as well and that's the goal, not to just give another option to people already vegan/vegetarian.