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This is just copied and pasted off Sierratradingpost.

Examples of Waterproof/Breathability Ratings for Major Manufacturers

Columbia Sportswear Omni-Tech® (Adults) 10,000/10,000
Columbia Sportswear Omni-Tech® (Kids) 5,000/5,000
Event Event 30,000/22,000
Gore-Tex® PacLite® 28,000/15,000
Gore-Tex® Pro-Shell 2-Layer 28,000/25,000
Gore-Tex® Pro-Shell 3-Layer 28,000/25,000
Lowe Alpine Triplepoint® 3-Layer 20,000/20,000
Marmot MemBrain® 20,000/25,000
Marmot PreCip® 15,000/12,000
Marmot PreCip Plus® 25,000/15,000
Mountain Hardwear Conduit 20,000/20,000
Sierra Designs Hurricane 8,000/2,000
Sierra Designs Microlight 600 N/A

SO I have been reading through the forums and saw this article and it has been very knowledgable, thank you. I was curious about peoples opinions on the following two pairs of Pants, they are on sale so not to bad right now. I live up on Vancouver Island in BC Canada and we tend to get a lot of damp snow since we are so close to the ocean.

The first ones are more of a skiing pant but I do like the Bib style.
Spyder Bormio Pant - On Sale - Men's - GearBuyer.com

The spyders claim to have 20k water resistance and 30k breatability but that would make it more breatable then both eVENT and Gore-tex.

The other pair are these Burtons which seem nice as well.

Burton AK 2L Cyclic Pants - On Sale - Men's - GearBuyer.com
 

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Apples to Oranges

SO I have been reading through the forums and saw this article and it has been very knowledgable, thank you. I was curious about peoples opinions on the following two pairs of Pants, they are on sale so not to bad right now. I live up on Vancouver Island in BC Canada and we tend to get a lot of damp snow since we are so close to the ocean.

The first ones are more of a skiing pant but I do like the Bib style.
Spyder Bormio Pant - On Sale - Men's - GearBuyer.com

The spyders claim to have 20k water resistance and 30k breatability but that would make it more breatable then both eVENT and Gore-tex.

The other pair are these Burtons which seem nice as well.

Burton AK 2L Cyclic Pants - On Sale - Men's - GearBuyer.com
You are comparing two totally different pants - you might as well ask if you should drive a Ferrari or a Land Rover :)

The Spyder is not 'more' of a ski pant it is the epitome of ski pants. Don't get me wrong - it is a GREAT pant. It is insulated, has super weather protection and the suspenders are great. It has a narrow fit from Hip and Leg down to the ankle - this is IN these days in both ski and snowboard but you have to decide if you like that. It is made in a mechanical stretch fabric so there is give and it is not atight fit, just narrow.

The Burton is a Gore-tex product, it is a 2 ply shell with waterproof zips - also a top of the line for waterproofness but has a baggy fit - not huge but more of the traditional snowboard cut. Keep in mind, it is just a shell.

To make a good decision you need to think about how you are going to use the pant - what conditions do you REALLY find yourself in and consider the style you like best, what suits your personal taste as well as where/what you ride.

Both pants are great quality, you won't go wrong with that - good luck!

See ya on the slopes!
 

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You are comparing two totally different pants - you might as well ask if you should drive a Ferrari or a Land Rover :)

The Spyder is not 'more' of a ski pant it is the epitome of ski pants. Don't get me wrong - it is a GREAT pant. It is insulated, has super weather protection and the suspenders are great. It has a narrow fit from Hip and Leg down to the ankle - this is IN these days in both ski and snowboard but you have to decide if you like that. It is made in a mechanical stretch fabric so there is give and it is not atight fit, just narrow.

The Burton is a Gore-tex product, it is a 2 ply shell with waterproof zips - also a top of the line for waterproofness but has a baggy fit - not huge but more of the traditional snowboard cut. Keep in mind, it is just a shell.

To make a good decision you need to think about how you are going to use the pant - what conditions do you REALLY find yourself in and consider the style you like best, what suits your personal taste as well as where/what you ride.

Both pants are great quality, you won't go wrong with that - good luck!

See ya on the slopes!

Thank you Kjerstin, I am 38 so I grew up skiing and don't mind the smaller pants. I may move back into skiing so it is all good. I do love suspenders as well I just find they keep me much dryer then just using a snow skirt.

Are these ones more lined? Burton AK 2L Stagger Pants - On Sale - Men's - GearBuyer.com it mentions something but I thought they would be the same as the Cyclic pants. They are about 2/3 of the price of the Sypers and I could live with out the bibs. I just really want something I can wear in all waether. Just boxers when it is warm and no more then long johns when it is cold.
 

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Mishtar,

The Stagger pant is also a 2 layer Gore-tex pant but it has a fleece lined butt and knee - nice pant but you have to layer under it for cold days. A shell is a good option if you tend to hike the pipe/park a lot and don't typically get cold. If getting wet is a bigger problem than staying warm it is good to stick with a highly waterproof shell...fleece pants and thermals are an easy way to layer effectively under a shell for the colder days :)

See ya on the slopes!
 

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so we shouldnt use laundry detergent when we put our gear in the washer. If we just use water and no soap at all will it get my gear clean and not loose waterproofness or be completely pointless.
 

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Personally I use either Dr Bronners soap or Seventh Generation HE powder when I wash my snow/technical gear in the washing machine. For my front load washer, I use 1 to 2 oz of Dr Bronners or about 1/2 the recommended amount of SG powder.

SG powder detergent is not common, I don't use the liquid variety because labels generally suggest powder. As far as Dr B soap goes, that stuff is mild an a soap rather than detergent so I think it should be safe.
 

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I'm a new rider and am shopping for jackets and pants that are on end of season sale/clearance. I just wanted to thank member, Kjerstin Klein, for the great info. :thumbsup: Not if, but WHEN I fall and stay warm and dry in my new threads, it's because I shopped smarter because of your posts.
 

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after getting my gear wet too many times, both from snow/pow and lack or breathability (ie. sweating), GoreTex is definitely worth price... I've tried others, like the Patagonia H2NO, and some other genericly rated stuff (like 8K/10K) from Volcom, and it just doesn't work as well as true GoreTex... great time of year right now to pick up Gore stuff for good discount...
 

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I can't remember if it's been said here but when washing these jackets what care should I be doing?

I'm not sure if I can skip the 2nd layer? say it's in the low 20's (F) do I need a second layer? I need to get my jacket soon before Dec better yet before the end of Nov.
 

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I can't remember if it's been said here but when washing these jackets what care should I be doing?

I'm not sure if I can skip the 2nd layer? say it's in the low 20's (F) do I need a second layer?
It depends on what makes your outerwear water resistant. If it has a DWR coating you'll want to wash it with Nikwax detergent, not regular laundry detergent. I believe anything with goretex can be washed with regular liquid laundry detergent. Best best is to follow the directions on the tag.

Whether you need a second later will depend in what type of jacket you get and whether or not it is insulated (and how much insulation it has). I always wear shells which has no insulation. So, a second layer is needed. With heavily insulted jackets you may not need it.
 

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It depends on what makes your outerwear water resistant. If it has a DWR coating you'll want to wash it with Nikwax detergent, not regular laundry detergent. I believe anything with goretex can be washed with regular liquid laundry detergent. Best best is to follow the directions on the tag.
That does not quite make sense: Most Goretex garments have the DWR coating.
 

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hmmm since I live at a apartment I'm concerned about the last person who used it and maybe bleach.. but we just got some new machines so you don't hear all that water left in the tub like the old machines.

But that Gore-tex site pretty much answered a question I kind of already figured out about washing with heavy soiled clothes.

About the drying cycle it seems like they are hinting at drying it twice on low for a total of 40 min?

lol sorry if I'm asking too many questions, people always make fun of me for following directions by the T on stuff.
 

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Which says exactly what I stated: Goretex items have a DWR coating (that is why they should be tumbled dried/ironed).
My point was that your post made it sound like there was an 'either-or' (either Goretex or DWR) wile it essentially is 'and' for Goretex. There are of course plenty of garment with DWR but without Goretex...
 

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Which says exactly what I stated: Goretex items have a DWR coating (that is why they should be tumbled dried/ironed).
My point was that your post made it sound like there was an 'either-or' (either Goretex or DWR) wile it essentially is 'and' for Goretex. There are of course plenty of garment with DWR but without Goretex...
Or you could follow the directions on the tag of the garment which is what I also said
 

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Or you could follow the directions on the tag of the garment which is what I also said
Oh, definitely. Was not disagreeing with you at all, just highlighting that Goretex still means that there is DWR - which is something that many people do not know/understand (instead believing that the Goretex membrane provides all the waterproofing).
 

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What do you think could I experience a significant difference between the Analog Deploy (Goretex) jacket with 28000mm waterproofness and the Armada Armory jacket with 10000mm?
Does this value depend on the brands or it is exact?
 

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Question: Can a Jacket be Goretex and insulated at the same time? Where would you take this jacket to? I'm having troubles finding a jacket that I like in terms of design, insulation and waterproof rate. I have an OR GTX shell that I use for climbing and spring/fall days but I wand something warmer. Anybody has some advice? Thanks!
 
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