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Discussion Starter #1
What's the problem with a 0, 0 stance? I rode 0, 0 for years...years ago. No one batted an eyelash. The other day I was watching the snowboardprofessor video about mounting bindings and the guy said no one should have a 0, 0 stance ever. I just saw it somewhere else on the forum. The first time I rented a board out here the rental guy wouldnt even give me a 0, 0 set up. But duck feels awkard as hell to me. I dont get what I am missing about the 0, 0 no-no.
 

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I remember 0,0 was the setup for rentals back in the day...1990ish. I never felt comfortable with duck myself. It feels perfectly natural until I actually strap the bindings on. I have rode 21,0 now for quite a while and I doubt I will ever mess with binding angles again.

I remember one time a buddy of mine rented a board and the bindings were setup pigeoned toed. Good thing I noticed it before he actually tried to strap these things on.
 

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It depends on how your legs move. For most people, it's more natural to have toes pointed out some when bending knees/squatting. For a very small few, it's ok/comfy to be at 0-0 and squat.

For me, 0-0 would destroy my knees...
 

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Not only does 0,0 shred your knees but it also is generally provided less stability than toes pointed outward. Think about what your general athletic stance is when you're playing pretty much any sport. Or squatting.
 

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There is absolutely zero wrong with running that stance as long as that is the way your legs bend. Your stance should be such that you can do a full squat with out any weird pressure or torquing of your knees, hips, and ankles.

My friend is pigeon toed. He rides at -3/3. Yes his toes are pointing toward each other. When he tried riding at 12/-12 it cut his ollie height in half. He's also the only adult I've seen W sit and he can't sit cross legged.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Is 0, 0 not the proper form for a squat? Thats how I have always done them anyway. Its supposed to reduce low back strain or something. I dont really know the mechanics of it. Yeah Whenwas when I started riding and 0, 0 was the default.
So its harder on the knees? It seems like the +12.+12 of a step in carver would be easier on the knees. I feel like riding duck makes it wierder to use your knees to enter a carve.
Anyone know the mechanics? I'm gonna ask my physiatrist.
 

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i think we can get used to just about anything, even if some say a given stance is 'better', we are all different....experiment around imo

no one will ever convince me duck is a good carving stance, even though obviously many can do it...i like to be forward on both feet, and this has never stopped me riding fakie like a mfkr either, carving fakie too

whatever floats yer boat imo, it's up to you to find it
 

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I have a question for you related to this Snowolf. I've read in numerous places that if you have your front foot angled too shallow, say less than 12 degrees, that it makes turning "unnecessarily difficult". This whole season I've been going back and forth between +12 and +9 on my front foot, +12 being the new angle I keep testing out, mainly because I read somewhere that anything less than +12 is not generally recommended.

I am comfortable enough riding either way, but there certainly is a noticeable difference between these two settings for me. The biggest thing I notice is that with the +12 setting I seem to have more difficulty initiating toeside turns on steeper hills and when I try to ride a heelside edge on flatter slopes for speed it tends to pull me into a heelside turn when I don't want to. Does this make any sense?

I've been tempted to go back to the +9 angle because these problems seem to lessen somewhat when I do but I was under the impression that no one really runs anything less than +12 on the front foot.

Also, if you have the time, can you comment specifically how a deeper angle (i.e. -6 vs -3) on your back foot affects your turning? I used to ride +9, -3 but went to -6 on the back foot a couple of times this year and can't really decide whether I like it or not.

Thanks in advance for any insight on this. All the things I've read done seem to address how angles affect your riding aside from the generic "three types of stance, apline, duck, etc." I have a hard time finding info on how stance angles affect turning and what not.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'm gonna try pidegon and see what it feels like. The 6 -6 duck was awkward to me but maybe I should have stuck to it more than 3 runs. .
I was just curious because the strong language surrounding the 0, 0 stance that I've seen/heard in multiple places was wierding me out. Combined with the death look I got from rental guy when asking for 0, 0 at Northstar I was just worried I was going to break something. Lol
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Oh and I 2nd trapper's question. Thats totally what I was curious about too!
 

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I started riding in the 0/0 days, and used that for a while. I soon transitioned to pushing the front foot forward to about 12 and used 12/0 for around 10 years because I felt more stable that way and felt I had more control. But it always felt a little awkward as being somewhat of an unnatural stance.

A few years ago I pushed the back foot to -6 and really liked it. I started riding switch this season and pushed the back foot to -12. So my current setup is 15/-12 and that really feels ideal for me.

But regardless of natural feel, I do think there are meaningful advantages to an angled setup (not necessarily duck, but using any angles). From a physics standpoint, you have more stability if your feet are angled. By the same token, you have more control. This is because your feet are responsive to, and can act in, two dimensions instead of one.

Take a look at this highly technical computer-aided drawing:



Clearly, the structure on the left (analogous to a 0/0 stance) is more susceptible to instability from a transverse force as shown since each foot only acts in one dimension in the plane of the board (generally speaking, along the axis of the board width via toe and heel pressure). On the other hand, the structure on the right (analogous to a duck stance) utilizes its trapezoidal shape to allow each foot to operate in two dimensions (both the width and the length of the board) and accordingly has more stability (think truss versus rectangle in building a bridge). Outputs from the feet in this position are similarly advantageous since they act in two dimensions. This useful when thinking about shifting weight fore and aft.

Of course this concept isn't exclusive to the duck stance. The idea is that stability increases with binding angle, wherever that angle is. Comfort, natural feel, and intended purpose are all other factors that play into how you'd set up your bindings.
 

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^^^ like

i ride 23/12, which i got used to way back cuz my sorels hung too far over, lol (can i get a....?)...but i have the highbacks pivoted so they are parallel to the edge...i can go on and on but it wont mean shyt to anyone else, haha
 

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When I learned to ride in the 90's 0,0 was pretty norm. I couldn't ride it though because I had way too much overhang at those angles. I ended up learning with a forward stance. Once i got my first wide board, I rode with a positive front foot, and 0 on the back. Now I ride 9,-9 and that's what's comfortable for me. When I first got back into boarding after a major hiatus I tired out 15,-15 but that was awkward and uncomfortable. Then I tried 12,-12 and that was a little better, but still not great. Then I went down to 9,-9 and that was the money spot for me. The point here is that there is no "correct" angle for snowboarding. The only "correct" angle, is the one that you are comfortable with.
 

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I would just ask will you get toe drag at 0-0?
Mine are ducked at 12 each. I've never tried it, but I think my toes would hang over too far at 0.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So why is the rental shop refusing to mount his bidings at 0,0 ? :dunno:
I'm actually female, 5'5" with a size 7.5 boot. No toe drag issues for me.

But yeah it was really wierd in general. This was my first trip to Northstar and
my first time on a board since like 2002. I rode a ton between 92 and 02. I told the guy that. A d I also asked for a board on the 148 range (I used to ride a 152, the first gen Rossi Recycler all mountain.) He a) insisted that I had to ride a soft, flat 138. and b.) That I couldnt ride with a 0,0 stance. I even strapped in and was like..whoa this feels wierd. I told him and he said 6,-6 is what we have to give beginners. So they was he was talking I thought it was some sort of safety issue. Looking back I think he was too lazy to switch the board out and/or adjust the stance. I was one of 3 people in there since I was out front at 7:30 waiting for them to open.
 

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Is 0, 0 not the proper form for a squat? Thats how I have always done them anyway. Its supposed to reduce low back strain or something. I dont really know the mechanics of it. Yeah Whenwas when I started riding and 0, 0 was the default.
So its harder on the knees? It seems like the +12.+12 of a step in carver would be easier on the knees. I feel like riding duck makes it wierder to use your knees to enter a carve.
Anyone know the mechanics? I'm gonna ask my physiatrist.
The thing my trainers stresses about squats is not to have the knee's go over the toes. I have a tendency to rotate my knee's out a little bit when I do them, and I have noticed that if I don't, it HURTS.

I myself really like an obnoxious amount of duck when I snowboard since I notice my legs really like to rotate out.

As not common as 0,0 is, at the end of the day, you have to do what feels good to you.
 

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With squats, trainers normally recommend toes slightly out in a comfortable, natural position. This is because the goal of squatting is to be able to get good depth (hip crease parallel to the knees) while keeping the knees tracking in a safe, stable position (i.e. not caving inward, thigh parallel to or even outside of your feet).

Having your knees go "over" your toes (i.e. past your toes) is natural, especially if you're front squatting where the knees are in a much more forward position by necessity. The important part is to keep your weight on your heels so that they don't lift. Squatting from your toes is a recipe for disaster.

Again, the goal is to have flexibility for maximal depth and range of motion while also keeping the knees in a safe position. Some people have the ability to achieve this with the toes pointed straight forward (i.e. 0/0). This requires very good ankle flexibility, and even then, for many people it's much more natural for their toes to be pointed out a bit.
 
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