[DaveMcI]

I always thought the iron was crucial for getting the good stuff out of the wax and into the base. Does the roto create heat? What type of wax do u use with the roto? As in hydrocarbon, floro, biodegradable, graphite. Which if any give the best result?

 

[barry831125]

If you are going to do hot waxing then I will recommend "RaceWax Complete Ski Snowboard Wax Tuning Kit". It has more than you will need for waxing and edge tuning. It also comes with metal, nylon, and horse brush to buff the base before and after waxing. The best thing is that it includes the edge tuning guide that allows you to adjust from 0 degrees to 5 degrees with 0.5-degree intervals. Using the included diamond stone and the edge tuning tool you should be able to sharpen the edge safely when needed.

 

[WigMar]

I always thought the iron was crucial for getting the good stuff out of the wax and into the base. Does the roto create heat? What type of wax do u use with the roto? As in hydrocarbon, floro, biodegradable, graphite. Which if any give the best result?

I thought heat from an iron or a heat gun was needed as well, but it looks like the rotobrush creates enough local friction to melt the wax into the base as well. I'm not sure if it's heat from friction or if the brushes just work it in really well. Either way, the board seems well waxed to me. It seems to last a normal amount of time, maybe a little less long than with an iron. I'm willing to wax more often with the rotobrush because it's so much easier, so durability is more than good enough for me. I've been using regular wax- usually for cold conditions but warmer wax in the spring. This rotowax method uses so little wax that I could wax every session without going through wax quickly at all. I'll be working with this giant block of cold weather wax for a decade I'm sure.

 

[tanscrazydaisy]

I thought heat from an iron or a heat gun was needed as well, but it looks like the rotobrush creates enough local friction to melt the wax into the base as well. I'm not sure if it's heat from friction or if the brushes just work it in really well. Either way, the board seems well waxed to me. It seems to last a normal amount of time, maybe a little less long than with an iron. I'm willing to wax more often with the rotobrush because it's so much easier, so durability is more than good enough for me. I've been using regular wax- usually for cold conditions but warmer wax in the spring. This rotowax method uses so little wax that I could wax every session without going through wax quickly at all. I'll be working with this giant block of cold weather wax for a decade I'm sure.

Brushes clear wax from structure.

Roto-cork, creates the heat to get the base to slightly absorb the wax, but the wax won't absorb as deep as a hot wax.

 

[oButto]

I thought heat from an iron or a heat gun was needed as well, but it looks like the rotobrush creates enough local friction to melt the wax into the base as well. I'm not sure if it's heat from friction or if the brushes just work it in really well. Either way, the board seems well waxed to me. It seems to last a normal amount of time, maybe a little less long than with an iron. I'm willing to wax more often with the rotobrush because it's so much easier, so durability is more than good enough for me. I've been using regular wax- usually for cold conditions but warmer wax in the spring. This rotowax method uses so little wax that I could wax every session without going through wax quickly at all. I'll be working with this giant block of cold weather wax for a decade I'm sure.

Which nylon rotobrush did you buy? So many different products with differing lengths/hardness on the market right now

 

[Craig64]

To set up for a wax kit you will need a few hundred $$$$$. I'd recommend buying recognised brands ie ToKo, Swix etc as their gear is at a higher level of quality. As an Aussie we have to practically import everything in from O/S as retail here don't stock much in the way of tuning gear so this is additionally expensive compared to U.S of A.

• I'd go with a ToKo T8 iron.

• Swix or ToKo snowboard Vices (these are the best)

• A brass, nylon and horsehair hand brush.
• If you can afford edge tuning tools and decent diamond stones this will add further costs. I love the SKS base edge tool and ToKo Pro (rollers) side edge tool

• If you can afford it, a 300mm nylon rotorbrush and axle.
• Buy waxes in 1lb/500gram blocks I was grabbing Vola 500grm blocks for $Au8 free delivery a few months ago from Amazon Prime. I grabbed about 30 of them in varying temps ranges but you just have to be lucky sometimes here. But it is generally cheaper to buy in bulk.

• I buy super large Scotchbrite pads from Bunnings (Hardware) Alco comes with a velcro plastic handle that keeps the Scotchbrite pad flat.

• Scraper. I just go to a Plastic suppliers and grab an offcut (free) of 5mm perspex and cut my scrapers on the bandsaw. The piece they gave me for free I could cut 20 scrapers from it.
• And the most important tool is a scraper sharpener. I have ToKo one but find I have a few sheets of used floor sander machine which I just lay on the ground and run the scraper at 90 degreees. I have used a file laid across a woodworking vice and run the scraper at 90 degrees which works well. You just have to clean the file every sharpen to get rid off the plastic debris. The sanding sheet is the easiest and the best in my mind.

 

[WigMar]

Brushes clear wax from structure.

Roto-cork, creates the heat to get the base to slightly absorb the wax, but the wax won't absorb as deep as a hot wax.

Rotobrushes aren't really traditional brushes. Check out this video- it shows what I'm talking about. I've used a rotocork, and I prefer the nylon brush by a large margin. I think I'd only use the rotocork for powders.

Is the end result different when you work wax into the structure of the base vs melting it into the structure? My real world testing in the conditions I ride in have shown me very little difference in performance between hot waxing and the rotowax with a nylon brush.

 

[WigMar]

Which nylon rotobrush did you buy? So many different products with differing lengths/hardness on the market right now

I got this kit from Amazon. I'd get the brass option over the cork if I did it again. I mostly only use the nylon brush.

The only waxing tools I use are wax and the rotobrush. I do clean up with a rag I guess.

 

[Craig64]

I got this kit from Amazon. I'd get the brass option over the cork if I did it again. I mostly only use the nylon brush.

The only waxing tools I use are wax and the rotobrush. I do clean up with a rag I guess.

Same I really only use nylon brush. 300mm is the way to go but you'll need around $US150 to buy axle and brush.

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[oButto]

Thanks guys. 300mm is a steep jump price-wise from the 100mm but time is also money...decisions

 

[Craig64]

Thanks guys. 300mm is a steep jump price-wise from the 100mm but time is also money...decisions

You only need the nylon and it will last a very long time if it's just for domestic usage. The beauty is with a 300mm that it's practically a single pass across the board instead of 3 with a 100mm.

 

[tanscrazydaisy]

Rotobrushes aren't really traditional brushes. Check out this video- it shows what I'm talking about. I've used a rotocork, and I prefer the nylon brush by a large margin. I think I'd only use the rotocork for powders.

Is the end result different when you work wax into the structure of the base vs melting it into the structure? My real world testing in the conditions I ride in have shown me very little difference in performance between hot waxing and the rotowax with a nylon brush.

In the video, the guy removed more wax than he put onto the board, thanks to the wax remover base cleaner.

Remember, brushing clears the wax out of the valleys of the structure. So, if you're just rubbing on wax then brushing it, you're just clearing the wax out of the valleys and polishing the wax on the peaks of the structure.

The rotobrush is still a brush, with bristles, like a brush mounted on a mandrel, so you still get the brushing action, like a hand brush, with much less effort, the power drill is doing the work for you.

When you just "surface treat" the wax onto the base, it doesn't really last that long, and shorter on more abrasive conditions, so you'll need to wax it more often.

Rotocorking, creates more heat than a nylon brush, which is why in racing, back when high fluoro overlays (if using the block form of the overlay) where used, you cork first, then brush out the structure of excess overlay, then after a run or 2, back in the waxing wax for another layer of high fluoro overlay.... where fractions of a second count in racing, and they are not known for durability, since it doesn't penetrate deep into the nooks and crannies of the base polyethylene. The durability of the wax is from the hot wax job under the overlay.

 

[WigMar]

In the video, the guy removed more wax than he put onto the board, thanks to the wax remover base cleaner.

Remember, brushing clears the wax out of the valleys of the structure. So, if you're just rubbing on wax then brushing it, you're just clearing the wax out of the valleys and polishing the wax on the peaks of the structure.

The rotobrush is still a brush, with bristles, like a brush mounted on a mandrel, so you still get the brushing action, like a hand brush, with much less effort, the power drill is doing the work for you.

When you just "surface treat" the wax onto the base, it doesn't really last that long, and shorter on more abrasive conditions, so you'll need to wax it more often.

Rotocorking, creates more heat than a nylon brush, which is why in racing, back when high fluoro overlays (if using the block form of the overlay) where used, you cork first, then brush out the structure of excess overlay, then after a run or 2, back in the waxing wax for another layer of high fluoro overlay.... where fractions of a second count in racing, and they are not known for durability, since it doesn't penetrate deep into the nooks and crannies of the base polyethylene. The durability of the wax is from the hot wax job under the overlay.

What you're saying doesn't match my experiences. I agree that rotowaxing's effectiveness is counter-intuitive. I also didn't think it would work until I tried it. All I know is I'm never touching another iron to one of my boards.

There's no way I could brush fast enough in one spot by hand to match what the roto does. They are not the same thing, and their effects are different.

I don't agree that rotobrushes polish the surface and clear out the valleys of the structure. You could visually see that in the structure if that was the case. I've got some pretty coarse structure on a Cool Bean that would definitely show that. Instead, the entire surface is glossy and waxed. If I polished away the microstructure left behind from rotowaxing, you wouldn't be able to tell how it was waxed- just that it has a fresh tune.

I carve hard on hard pack for several hours every riding session. That is followed by either freeriding trees or bombing around. My rotowaxing lasts several days of that abuse just fine. I've got six days on my powder board's tune and it's looking great. It looks like it could take another six powder days without complaint. That's durable enough for me.

Those racing overlays are something different from regular wax. Rotocorking makes a lot of sense for overlays and is often recommended. The nylon rotobrush frictions crayoned wax into the base evenly where the cork smears it all over the surface and requires scraping in my experience.

 

[elopomorph]

Sorry for taking a step back in this conversation. Early in the conversation there was a point to avoid the "do it all edge tools". I am not sure what exactly is a "do it all edge tool". I have two lib tech snowboards and both of them have magnatraction. So I planned to purchase this edge sharpener from one-ball. I don't think the tool I am considering buying is a "do it all edge tool" but I am not sure. Does anyone see any problems with the one-ball edge sharpener tool? Here is the tool I plan to purchase:

Magne-Traction File Tool

For tuning up your Magne-Traction Board. This small tool fits into the grooves so you can get your's on. Sharp edges rip! 90 and 88 Degrees. Tuning Instructions: 1. Place board or skis in a vise to secure and clean base with a fresh hot wax job and scrape or use ONE MFG Base Cleaner. 2. Check...

one-ball.com

 

[Yotaismygame]

For most of us, is waxing just creating a placebo effect?

 

[bseracka]

For most of us, is waxing just creating a placebo effect?

If you’re using an extruded base then yes. With a sintered base waxing can make a significant difference

 

[Yotaismygame]

If you’re using an extruded base then yes. With a sintered base waxing can make a significant difference

This will be my last comment on this. Don't want to side track this topic. This topic reminds me of "best oil to use" topic in the automotive world.

Can you say that with 100% certainty? Absolute positive you can really tell the difference? Makes a world of difference? Like I said "most of us"....

 

[Oldman]

For most of us, is waxing just creating a placebo effect?

If you’re using an extruded base then yes. With a sintered base waxing can make a significant difference

+1 There is no doubt that a well waxed sintered base makes a difference that "most of us" could indeed experience. The problem is that there are only such a select few that bother to wax a board, ( those that do wax on a regular basis are likely on this forum ) that "most of us" never experience the difference.

 

[WigMar]

Sorry for taking a step back in this conversation. Early in the conversation there was a point to avoid the "do it all edge tools". I am not sure what exactly is a "do it all edge tool". I have two lib tech snowboards and both of them have magnatraction. So I planned to purchase this edge sharpener from one-ball. I don't think the tool I am considering buying is a "do it all edge tool" but I am not sure. Does anyone see any problems with the one-ball edge sharpener tool? Here is the tool I plan to purchase:

Magne-Traction File Tool

For tuning up your Magne-Traction Board. This small tool fits into the grooves so you can get your's on. Sharp edges rip! 90 and 88 Degrees. Tuning Instructions: 1. Place board or skis in a vise to secure and clean base with a fresh hot wax job and scrape or use ONE MFG Base Cleaner. 2. Check...

one-ball.com

I'm not sure you need a specific magnetraction edge tool. I prefer this style of tool. You can use larger files and move the file around to distribute the wear evenly across the file. You can also put your diamond stones in it for accurate polishing. The small tool you linked is going to concentrate all of the sharpening on one small area of that small file and it will wear out quickly. I also think the extra girth on the bigger edging tool is helpful to getting a consistent edge angle.

I don't ride much magnetraction though. Maybe someone with more experience tuning mag will be good enough to chime in.

 

[Craig64]

I'm not sure you need a specific magnetraction edge tool. I prefer this style of tool. You can use larger files and move the file around to distribute the wear evenly across the file. You can also put your diamond stones in it for accurate polishing. The small tool you linked is going to concentrate all of the sharpening on one small area of that small file and it will wear out quickly. I also think the extra girth on the bigger edging tool is helpful to getting a consistent edge angle.

I don't ride much magnetraction though. Maybe someone with more experience tuning mag will be good enough to chime in.

I know from running 100mm diamond stones with a guide down a magne-traction edge that it wears out the tip ends of the stones pretty quick due to waffles in the edge. It is wiser to therefore use the stones vertically in an appropriate side edge guide.