I hear you… we could have a carving section, with a posi sub forum.

And for more traditional boarders, this is the opposite of what we want to do, even if we're carving.

As for ‘traditional’, some of us still predate the whole duck thing. I’d say that posi was traditional… duck is more contemporary (last 25 yrs?).

 

I hear you… we could have a carving section, with a posi sub forum.



As for ‘traditional’, some of us still predate the whole duck thing. I’d say that posi was traditional… duck is more contemporary (last 25 yrs?).

Ugh, kids distracted me, I meant to fix that to say the more common setup instead of traditional.

 

I don't really care for his carving style. A lot of what he says gives me pause. Watching his interface video about boots and bindings really threw me. His jam seems to be the bomberonline style straight legged carving that can only happen on pristine piste.

We should get a carving section going. There's a lot to talk about there no doubt.

 

This is where I'm at. You look at the way he talks, the way he rides, his gear and specifically the way he sets up his boots... he's basically hard booting. It's great for one very specific thing, and the specific way he does it.

I feel like "carving" has just gotten all rolled up under one umbrella. Knapton, Lars, Cherry, Korua team, Japanese snow surfers-- all very distinct and separate styles. Definitely some consistency across those disciplines, but also huge differences. Like just from the recent Lars and Cherry teamup, Lars utilizes his ankles a lot more dynamically, whereas Cherry is more full extension straight legged.

 

Korua Shapes made carving cool again and appealing to the masses. This guy is kind of taking things the other direction. I'm waiting for the video where he breaks down the need for a fin on your helmet

Seriously though I enjoy his videos, he seems to have a great sense of humour. I'll take some pointers from his technique but I'm never going to be that hardcore about carving.

 

He's kinda out there, I relate to Lars much better both as a person and his riding preferences, but James does shred and know what he's talking about. With all the jimmy rigging he does to his set up ( ski boot liners, tongue stiffeners, power straps, diy canting, etc.) it's strange he just doesn't wear hard boots, but it's like an image thing for him (He talks about it with Lars). I find it funny he's worried about that yet he rocks a fin on his helmet and stuff in his beard lol.

 

Totally agree. Cherry certainty rips, but unless your dad owns Baldface Lodge, you'd better enjoy groomer days because you're going to have a hell of a lot more of them. Cherry, on the other hand, takes it to another level. He loves it when it doesn't snow, and as a counterpoint, Lars loves it no matter what. Hardpack, fine, groomers, fine, slushy crud, fine, blower pow... the best. He's the rider's rider IMO.

 

Lars uses Ride Insano boots with aftermarket Intuition liners. I wouldn’t be surprised if his interface was actually stiffer. I kinda thought about doing that exact thing myself, but a find the insano just a bit too stiff.

I like that both of them are bringing back the roots, stuff that has been forgotten and things that a lot of people were never exposed to. Maybe I won’t look like such a weird, old guy… though lots of people still have ZERO interest in any sort carving.

 

Lars talks about using his ankle and knee flex to control the board, Cherry talks about wanting to be stiff legged and have 100% power transfer to his board. I doubt it's close.

 

Different styles indeed. James is on wider boards, really throws his hip into it, and likes to be laid out. I have no doubt that he’s stiffened his boots where he needs it, but otherwise I can’t see them being as rigid as the Insano+Intuition. The Insano has a fairly well defined articulation point for dorsiflexion… but that’s about it.

 

Isn't Cherry riding the driver x? I'd have guessed those are roughly as stiff as the insanos.

 

I don’t think everyone appreciated Cherry’s deadpan humour… he fully admitted that he was doing some trash talking. He’s genuinely serious about the carving stuff (like Uber nerd), and I think some people took everything else a bit too seriously. The guy rides pow with 18/-6 angles, but he’s mostly just showing his own carving journey.

Having Said all that, I probably ride more like Laars… posi all the time, and trying to bend the knees (when I’m not lazy).

 

The guy rides pow with 18/-6 angles, but he’s mostly just showing his own carving journey.

I honnestly can't reconcile it with what I've heard in his video.
I mean, I don't see him suddenly riding switch a lot or casually spinning cab5's just on pow days and i think we can rule out him having been taught this way and not knowing any better.

OK i'm just trolling but i'm genuinely interested in confirmation that he actually rides an asymetrical duck on pow days. Is that something that he actually says in one of the vid?

 

Actually I couldn’t remember which boot it was… I got caught up in the mods. I haven’t tried the driver X, but I hear it is indeed stiff.

 

Man riding asymmetrical duck on a pow day. I'm sorry I just read this sentence as an outsider and had to.

 

Duck looks kinda normal? 🤔

 

Nice to see someone managed to popularize this. That said, I didn't learn anything I haven't learned already at that Pureboarding weekend in, oh, 2011 or 2012. Something like that.

 

I’m really stoked on these guys because it’s great to get some tips on posi and I‘m continuing to learn. When I moved out west 13 years ago and got back to riding I searched for some pointers but almost nothing applied to me.

I can see how this is an affront to duck riders and everything they’ve learned... But it’s really just a different style. It does have some alpine racing fundamentals, but free carving is even different from that.

 

It's not an affront, it's just very different than the common approach.

 

Yeah I did not feel like spending more than two minutes on it, at least it's kinda sideways.

 

Maybe not an affront to you, but I can see how it could be.

I remember looking into riding lessons a decade ago (my kids were doing ski lessons) and I just thought WTF? This is NOT what I want to learn. It all seemed like a step backwards to me.

Here's where the highest levels are still at:

Level 5: "You always use your hips and knees to turn the snowboard and maintain alignment with upper and lower body."
Level 6: "You consistently edge your board at the start of your turn on groomed terrain."

They do teach other things about terrain and freestyle, but they're building on entirely different fundamentals. In terms of turning, it seemed like I was already beyond their training.

I tried to be more open-minded and even set up a twin going duck with a regular stance (I'm goofy), inspired by Ryan Knapton... but that's just not me.

 

Ooh you got me off on a tangent thought now...

Ever since I saw that post the other day about how Bataleon boards use tbt to let riders be a little more casual, it has me thinking about whether my journey of progression has been about me trying to be my personal best, or about me trying to be objectively skilled. Do I really want to keep pushing to try to grow into riding my current boards at/near 100%, or would I be more comfortable with a board that's forgiving and lets me perform really well at my current skill level? I don't know the answer yet.

 

I'm trying it all out, coming from +15/-12 and going to his +30/+15 recommendation. My goal is to learn everything I can from his style, and then take what I can and apply it back to duck stance carving. But yeah, it's a niche riding style and requires you to know all the basics already, and it could definitely lead people astray.

 

If you're after duck stance carving, I'd skip the posi experience. It's really different. Body dynamics and proper stacked posture are not the same. Maybe you'll get a sense of how your hips need to open up, but it's almost impossible to achieve when you go duck again. It's certainly possible with enough flexibility, but you almost never see it happen. Get your heelside chatter on.

What's the appeal of duck carving? To me it seems like wanting to hit gnarly free ride lines on an undersized park board. It's just not ideal. You're gonna need a very wide deck that's gonna be a bummer to ride in any sort of variable or rutted conditions. I hope you've got wide open immaculate groomers where you ride. Combining such a straight legged carving style with duck stance on a board wide enough to facilitate that is going to require the best grooming in the world.

 

I hear ya WigMar... though Mark at Tribute has suggested going posi to perfect your carve, then nudge it back.

I agree the biomechanics are different, but maybe it gets people opening up their hips?

A couple vids on duck progression...

 

I say to people if you can ride switch by all means run with a negative rear duck stance but if you a practically one directional in your riding then starting at 0 to slightly + on rear foot will be greatly beneficial to you as it's far easier to bring that weight forward when engaging turns. I run with +6 to +9 on rear foot now and find I'm sort of getting pretty front on with turning like Lars. Now personally, I sort of love this progression.

 

The funny thing about James cherry et al is that really what he’s preaching is a refined version of how everybody learnt to snowboard (at least in Europe) in the very early 90s. Posi - posi in ski boots and trying to emulate serge Vitelli’s carves ( look him up)

Snowboarding evolved when the skateboarders got involved and back foot angles reduced (& went duck) as it facilitated skate style tricks and eventually switch everything. Carving turns wasn’t important and everyone got taught the new way of riding with foot / knee steering and very little upper body movement which is completely different to the original version (1990 version) of skidding turns by rotating your upper body and turning around your front foot. Normal riding position was the aforementioned tea tray holding with back knee ticked towards your front.

The body mechanics works differently depending on where your stance sits between symmetrical duck and James cherry. It’s different feels for different days or styles of lines drawn.

I kind of feel we are getting where surfing is where you might ride a thruster shortboard one day, a twin fin midlength another and a heavy longboard on the next. Your style and lines drawn change depending on which board you’re riding that day...

Anyway, probably too much waffle

 

Posi Posi is the minivan of snowboarding. It is a clear sign that you have given up all hope of holding anything close to sex appeal in favor of efficiency, practicality and comfort.

what do you think the percentage of positive posi riders are with vasectomies 65, 70? Probably close to the average age as well.

 

Posi Posi is the minivan of snowboarding. It is a clear sign that you have given up all hope of holding anything close to sex appeal in favor of efficiency, practicality and comfort.

what do you think the percentage of positive posi riders are with vasectomies 65, 70? Probably close to the average age as well.

Um.....,
No,
No,
No,

I feel it's more like what @Jory said...., we now have the luxury with the fantastic progressive technical evolution in Board profiles and designs to travel down a variety of routes in snowboarding styles. This is a good thing.

 

Big kook energy

 

Maybe personality just doesn't come across, but I don't get the best vibes off Cherry. In the live stream he did with Lars, kept talking over Lars. And he did it in an oddly passive-aggressively Canadian way that was just like "Oh sorry, let me just say this..."

Style-wise, dude can definitely rip a turn but after seeing his boot mods, he's basically a hard booter. To the point where you wonder why he doesn't just hard boot.

All-around, Lars is just more my speed.

 

Question for all you posi bros. Do you still skate with your rear foot behind the board, or with all that posi front leg angle do you skate with your rear foot in front of the board?

 

I'm skating in front. It feels good. Reminds me of actually skating.

 

If you need that much in the boot to ride, it means you can't use your feet and are over torquing the interface. You don't need any of that to even freecarve BX boards with 18m+ sidecuts. Like wtf?

Any WC BX board is going to be a more demanding ride than any of the "serious recreational" setups he has. And it's not even that hard to do anyways.

 

The funny thing about James cherry et al is that really what he’s preaching is a refined version of how everybody learnt to snowboard (at least in Europe) in the very early 90s. Posi - posi in ski boots and trying to emulate serge Vitelli’s carves ( look him up)

Snowboarding evolved when the skateboarders got involved and back foot angles reduced (& went duck) as it facilitated skate style tricks and eventually switch everything. Carving turns wasn’t important and everyone got taught the new way of riding with foot / knee steering and very little upper body movement which is completely different to the original version (1990 version) of skidding turns by rotating your upper body and turning around your front foot. Normal riding position was the aforementioned tea tray holding with back knee ticked towards your front.

The body mechanics works differently depending on where your stance sits between symmetrical duck and James cherry. It’s different feels for different days or styles of lines drawn.

I kind of feel we are getting where surfing is where you might ride a thruster shortboard one day, a twin fin midlength another and a heavy longboard on the next. Your style and lines drawn change depending on which board you’re riding that day...

Anyway, probably too much waffle

Yes! This is the way. Snowboarding is about turns. The turn you choose depends on the conditions and the mood. Every deck has a purpose. Every deck has a unique turning style.

Question for all you posi bros. Do you still skate with your rear foot behind the board, or with all that posi front leg angle do you skate with your rear foot in front of the board?

I go both ways but mostly in front.

 

[QUOTE="WigMar, post: 3516754, member:
What's the appeal of duck carving?
[/QUOTE]
Laying trenches in between side hits and butters. I really don't get how you balance landings with too much posi. But you don't have to go as low as you would with a pure carving board. Pipe boards have always carved great, but in more upright position.

And that's a bit what I dont like with Cherry (and style extent lars). They kinda let you think they ride all-mountain, general purpose setups and then you realize they are on niche setups. And they know that a video named "Alpine racing technique applied in soft boot" isn't gonna draw the same crowd as "correct stance" with a Biru on the preview.

 

And that's a bit what I dont like with Cherry (and style extent lars). They kinda let you think they ride all-mountain, general purpose setups and then you realize they are on niche setups. And they know that a video named "Alpine racing technique applied in soft boot" isn't gonna draw the same crowd as "correct stance" with a Biru on the preview.

Alpine racing does not have the least bit to do with what Cherry teaches. Freecarving and racing are two very different beasts.
"Niche" in this context justt means that fewer people do it. A rotational style on a +/+ setup can be every bit as versatile as +/-. Of course, there will be some compromises in both cases, but that does not prove one compromise is bigger than the other.

 

I mean counter rotation, counter angulation, leveled shoulders... He even mentions slalom (along with motorbike) racing. I'm pretty sure if it wasn't for those stupid FIS gates, but pucks like they had beech in the days, alpine racing would like those turns.

Not that I have anything against it, I'm eyeing an SG (or Swoard) setup myself to Slash some corduroy.

 

alpine racing would like those turns.

I don't know... his goal is to make big 180 degree turns on each edge and reduce speed on steep slopes. I watched his 9 points video and tried it all the last three times I've been up, and it definitely takes longer to get down the mountain! But his subsequent videos have me wondering just how specialized my gear has to be to really carve down the steepest blues at my local resort...