[T.J.]

i can see both sides of this. Yes, of course it sucks that 43 people will lose their jobs. this certainly isnt going to give Burton the employer of the year award. BUT, like mystic said, this was only a very small percentage of their current production. The majority of their manufacturing already takes place outside of the US. who is really upset that the $900 vapor is going to be made in austria and not the usa now? no one.

 

[david_z]

Not to mention that in Austria, where there is universal single payer health care, the company is not burdened with paying outrageous and ever rising insurance premiums to cover its workers.....

I've gotta call you out on this wolfie --- Although the fact of the matter is that the company isn't writing a check, the competitive environment in these countries is such (i.e., affects everyone, equally) that this isn't a competitive advantage that goes straight to the bottom line. It just gets competed away.

In these instances, everyone is burdened by health care costs; the costs are borne by the entire economy by higher tax rates and also borne disproportionately by the unemployed in the form of (often) higher unemployment rates. (The pre-crash unemployment rates in most of "developed" Europe like France/Germany was typically around 9-10%, or double the average unemployment rate 4-5% in the US.)

But I digress...

 

[jgsqueak]

It's funny how people slam one brand or another usually but saying, "their boards are crap, they fall apart" etc. It might help them to know that over 50% of snowboards come from the same Austrian factory. Chances are the boards these guys are riding (and love) were made buy the same people as the boards they are slamming. Sure, technologies are different, but technologies don't really breakdown (has anyone ever seen Magnatraction turn into a radial sidecut?), it is the raw materials in the board and means by which they are held together that breakdown and fall apart...these are factory issues, not brand issues.

 

[ComeBack_Kid]

4. americans suck

All the losers(thats you) hate the greats at the top(thats America).

Btw, an American invented snowboarding. So honestly, just say thank you and then go fuck yourself :laugh:

 

[killclimbz]

It makes sense. Austria is where a ton of boards are made for several companies. Plus, Burton very much is an international player in board sales. It's cheaper for them to build boards and export them back to the USA than to build them here and ship them to Europe. You avoid most of the import/export taxes by building a product and shipping it within the EU.

Really, I don't have much of a problem with this. Austria also has the talent pool to draw from for this large of a manufacturing operation.

 

[david_z]

what about most of the Burton boards, already mfg in Europe, which cost an arm and a leg more over there? The Burton Mayhem has a $400 MSRP and it lists in Euro websites for 400 Euro, given the exchange rate that's 25% more than it costs here!

Interested also to see what sort of impact this has on pricing in the U.S., if these are now all treated as imports, I have no idea what sort of trade agreements we have with the EU and what sort of duties/taxes might be imposed.

 

[Leo]

OMFG!!! Burton is moving production overseas!!! How dare they turn their backs on us Americans!?!

I'm so mad that I'm going to buy a big fucking American muscle SUV that was built in Mexico to show my patriotism!









Moral of the story: Big fucking surprise. I'm glad that you're offended by this while you drive in your Ford Focus. Off-shoring sucks balls, but almost all big brand American manufacturers do this.

 

[tooscoops]

indeed. but until you spell overseas correct, we can't take it seriously. i keed, i keed. spelling isn't all that important.

but yeah. it would be nice to build here.. but if they build better boards, cheaper with less taxation on the factory.... why the hell wouldn't they do it?

eventually, big bad (north) america is going to lose all their jobs in production due to these simple facts. then, lots of people will be without jobs. then... hopefully the governments will find some ways to keep what little money we have in our pockets. and maybe by then we'll stop being such crazy consumers after seeing what can happen.

heh.. of course... that will happen.

 

[burritosandsnow]

It's funny how people slam one brand or another usually but saying, "their boards are crap, they fall apart" etc. It might help them to know that over 50% of snowboards come from the same Austrian factory. Chances are the boards these guys are riding (and love) were made buy the same people as the boards they are slamming. Sure, technologies are different, but technologies don't really breakdown (has anyone ever seen Magnatraction turn into a radial sidecut?), it is the raw materials in the board and means by which they are held together that breakdown and fall apart...these are factory issues, not brand issues.

thats good logic but false .. even though boards may be produced in the same factory its still the board company that dictates the materials used ... if brand a uses the "best" materials and brand b uses "something we got on clearance" board quality will be different regardless of being made in the same factory

 

[COB]

I was in Shenyang, China, on business in February. One factory I visited makes steel valves for a Korean company. I was with the Korean owner, he has two factories in Korea.

He told me the employess in the Shenyang, China, facility make $200.00 a month, they work a 40 hour week. These were skilled workers, running cold forging machines, lathes, etc.

About a dollar an hour for skilled labor? Let's just say that if I were working in that Austrian factory that makes snowboards, I wouldn't be making any long-term financial decisions based on my job staying in Austria.

 

[DC5R]

Interested also to see what sort of impact this has on pricing in the U.S., if these are now all treated as imports, I have no idea what sort of trade agreements we have with the EU and what sort of duties/taxes might be imposed.

I don't think trade agreements exist for finished products. What will probably happen will be all the parts will be manufactured in Austria and then shipped back to North America where the final product will be assembled. This usually bypasses import taxes as components themselves aren't normally taxed. A Made in America sticker will be slapped on the product afterwards and many will be none the wiser. A lot of companies do this now.

 

[david_z]

true, that's what most of the automakers do.

 

[Flick Montana]

What's the big deal? Nothing is made in America anymore except for those little stickers that say, "Made in America".

We're a nation of consumers, not producers.

 

[jgsqueak]

Burton's pricing is down for 2011. For example the Custom X is down $80, sure $650 is still a lot for a board but it is well under the $700 mark.

 

[burritosandsnow]

I was in Shenyang, China, on business in February. One factory I visited makes steel valves for a Korean company. I was with the Korean owner, he has two factories in Korea.

He told me the employess in the Shenyang, China, facility make $200.00 a month, they work a 40 hour week. These were skilled workers, running cold forging machines, lathes, etc.

About a dollar an hour for skilled labor? Let's just say that if I were working in that Austrian factory that makes snowboards, I wouldn't be making any long-term financial decisions based on my job staying in Austria.

Ill preface my own reply to this by saying lets try to keep this non political. This isnt political its purely a numbers game. Two hundred American is a sweet bargain buts that not to say that those workers are unfairly paid. IF the standard of living puts the annual household income at $80 a month than $200 is rolling fat for them. THATS why its so easy for companies to go overseas. If we werent so damn stingy with our pennies over here and willing to only buy a product from a place that can sell it at its absolutely lowest price then off shore manufacturing wouldnt be so inviting. Yes however you are right I wouldnt be going and looking for a bigger house if I were one of those Austrians lol. In fact the conspiracy side of me thinks that China is the final plan but its easier and better PR for Burton to say were moving to Austria. Down the road when they shift to China no US jobs will be affected so there wont be an announcement. Again just the conspiracy thought process no evidence.

 

[Leo]

Two hundred American is a sweet bargain buts that not to say that those workers are unfairly paid. IF the standard of living puts the annual household income at $80 a month than $200 is rolling fat for them.

Careful with that thought. A certain country's standard of living might not be such a great one. For America, the standard of living is owning a 2 bedroom house, one television set, and one car. Or something very similar to that. In contrast, China's standard of living might be more along the lines of having one meal and a bath every day (grossly exaggerated, but for argument's sake). The biggest factor you have to consider is the laws. America's minimum wage is set to make life "livable" (in quotes due to subjectivity). China on the other hand, has one of the lowest minimum wages in the world. A Chinese worker making minimum wage can barely survive. This is why these factories often provide "housing". I quote housing because they are actually worse than most prisons with 20 or more people crammed into an area less than a standard American apartment. Well, actually American companies provide much better housing. Chinese companies are far worse and that is to their own people. Think about it, if you have to rely on your employer to give you housing, how much power do you think you have? Would you dare ask for a raise?

 

[burritosandsnow]

Careful with that thought. A certain country's standard of living might not be such a great one. For America, the standard of living is owning a 2 bedroom house, one television set, and one car. Or something very similar to that. In contrast, China's standard of living might be more along the lines of having one meal and a bath every day (grossly exaggerated, but for argument's sake). The biggest factor you have to consider is the laws. America's minimum wage is set to make life "livable" (in quotes due to subjectivity). China on the other hand, has one of the lowest minimum wages in the world. A Chinese worker making minimum wage can barely survive. This is why these factories often provide "housing". I quote housing because they are actually worse than most prisons with 20 or more people crammed into an area less than a standard American apartment. Well, actually American companies provide much better housing. Chinese companies are far worse and that is to their own people. Think about it, if you have to rely on your employer to give you housing, how much power do you think you have? Would you dare ask for a raise?

yes for sure I do understand its all relative but my point was even if standard means living in a home with shit on the floor at least if you make more than standard you got a really nice hardwood floor covered in shit

 

[Leo]

yes for sure I do understand its all relative but my point was even if standard means living in a home with shit on the floor at least if you make more than standard you got a really nice hardwood floor covered in shit

LoL! Touche my friend :laugh:

 

[jgsqueak]

thats good logic but false .. even though boards may be produced in the same factory its still the board company that dictates the materials used ... if brand a uses the "best" materials and brand b uses "something we got on clearance" board quality will be different regardless of being made in the same factory

When was the last time you visited GST in Austria? What goes into a board? Wood Core - Most of the "quality wood" out there comes from the same tree from the same part of the globe. Fiberglass - no company has a top secret glass formula...sure some integrate other materials (carbon, etc.) but that is no secret either. Edges - Brass, Stainless, or just plain steel edges are the only variation here. Does Rome have secret steel compound that no one knows about? Base - Extruded or Sintered...there is a base compound that everyone works with, companies only add to it to get that Teflon Wax-Impregnated Fusion Sintered base (which doesn't make you go any faster than a freshly tuned sintered base).

Basically there is a level playing field with the materials that go into a board (sure there is some variance to the manner in which they are put together, i.e. technology), for the most part, wood is wood, edges are edges, and base is base. Companies bring production to GST (or Elan, etc.) because of proven manufacturing and quality control (and probably cost of production). They trust them to do what GST does best, built boards. Omatic doesn't go to GST and tell them how to lay up a board (neither does Burton for that matter).

These factories are fairly small in square footage, they don't have the room to have a pile of Burton's materials, a pile of Flow's material, and so on. Raw material (which have very little variance) come in the door and snowboards go out the door. It is the brands technology (carbon I beam, dual zone EGD, Harshmellow, Pop Rods, Wiggle Stick, Flying V Rocker, etc.) that make the board specific to each brand. I guarantee that GST is better than most brands at finding the best wood on the planet and finding it (since they are buying more of it) at a better price.

Just a disclaimer, when I say that there is a level playing field in the materials, I am mainly speaking of legitimate/quality brands and not 3rd tier brands (i.e. Morrow, Lamar, etc.).

 

[hpin]

When was the last time you visited GST in Austria? What goes into a board? Wood Core - Most of the "quality wood" out there comes from the same tree from the same part of the globe. Fiberglass - no company has a top secret glass formula...sure some integrate other materials (carbon, etc.) but that is no secret either. Edges - Brass, Stainless, or just plain steel edges are the only variation here. Does Rome have secret steel compound that no one knows about? Base - Extruded or Sintered...there is a base compound that everyone works with, companies only add to it to get that Teflon Wax-Impregnated Fusion Sintered base (which doesn't make you go any faster than a freshly tuned sintered base).

Basically there is a level playing field with the materials that go into a board (sure there is some variance to the manner in which they are put together, i.e. technology), for the most part, wood is wood, edges are edges, and base is base. Companies bring production to GST (or Elan, etc.) because of proven manufacturing and quality control (and probably cost of production). They trust them to do what GST does best, built boards. Omatic doesn't go to GST and tell them how to lay up a board (neither does Burton for that matter).

These factories are fairly small in square footage, they don't have the room to have a pile of Burton's materials, a pile of Flow's material, and so on. Raw material (which have very little variance) come in the door and snowboards go out the door. It is the brands technology (carbon I beam, dual zone EGD, Harshmellow, Pop Rods, Wiggle Stick, Flying V Rocker, etc.) that make the board specific to each brand. I guarantee that GST is better than most brands at finding the best wood on the planet and finding it (since they are buying more of it) at a better price.

Just a disclaimer, when I say that there is a level playing field in the materials, I am mainly speaking of legitimate/quality brands and not 3rd tier brands (i.e. Morrow, Lamar, etc.).

You sir, have no clue about manufacturing then. Even wood from the same supplier will have variances. Geeez... maybe start with this...

broblog » Everything you ever wanted to know about snowboard manufacturing!

"What are your working methods and processes to guarantee that each brand is treated separately?
There might be a common believe that boards produced in the same factory are the same with different graphics…Tell us how you handle specificities/innovations for every brands.

Antoine and Mario, our Technical Product Managers communicate all tech details with our partners. Everything is defined based on the customers’ wishes in most cases. The Product Managers monitor these details closely to ensure that 2 brands are not un-intentionally biting each other. From time to time it will happen that 2 brands will approach us in the same development cycle with the same concept / idea. Generally…whoever has approached first will see it through. We will inform the other that this is something that is already being developed for another partner and we are not willing to co-develop it for them.
To say that one board from our factory is the same as the next with only a graphic change is totally ignorant. Shapes are brand specific, wood cores (both species and design) are brand specific, laminate materials and configurations are brand specific. We have a flexible and diverse enough factory that we can achieve this differentiation. Clearly we have in-house moulds that are accessed by many of our smaller partners and these can share similar construction methods and materials from time to time. When speaking of the “core industry” brands we are partnered with this is not the case. Each brand has there own pre-defined construction ideas regarding materials, techniques, etc. Clearly there are only so many base materials available to the snowboard world… so these are necessarily shared. Sidewall materials also. What is naturally different is the designs…being a split sidewall or a diecut swap base. These are the visual things that separate the brands in the areas we have only so many options for material choices."