Have you ever tried wearing base layer + down + shell, with bibs? I think that's pretty much always going to be too hot, and the down won't deal with sweat well.

I wear a light weight down vest in the mornings over my base layer + fleece, but after the first run it gets stuffed in my backpack unless its a super cold windy day.

 

That's exactly what I do: Base layer + bib + down + shell. However, I do ride in quite a cold climate (between december and early march it's usually between -30oC and -15oC).
It's worth noting that the down layer is outside of the bibs (3-in-1 with my shell).
Works for me...

 

I do not have specific experience with either of those.
I know this is not exactly what you were asking, and if it’s way off base I’m totally sorry… I will say that I have a Patagonia puffy sweater (whatever it’s called) and a Kuhl Spyfire hoody. The spyfire hoody is by far a better choice if you are looking for a mid layer down puffy. I know that’s not what you were asking but if you are open to other options then I will back this product. I’ve posted a few times on the forum about down as mid layer for active insulation (not the best idea because when moisture hits it, and it gets wet, then it starts to lose its insulation properties and it takes a long time to dry). Because I tend to run warm, down jackets hold in so much heat and moisture with me that the armpit area has nowhere to breathe, etc. The spyfire has a different material in the armpit area and allows it to breathe in that section so much better than any other down puffy I’ve used. It’s 800 fill and doesn’t take up much space. While I won’t wear this as a mid layer for riding, this is the only down jacket that I will wear as a mid layer for other things. It packs up well (doesn’t take up much space).
Again, I am sorry for not directly answering your question. If this is of no value, my bad.

 

I do not have specific experience with either of those.
I know this is not exactly what you were asking, and if it’s way off base I’m totally sorry… I will say that I have a Patagonia puffy sweater (whatever it’s called) and a Kuhl Spyfire hoody. The spyfire hoody is by far a better choice if you are looking for a mid layer down puffy. I know that’s not what you were asking but if you are open to other options then I will back this product. I’ve posted a few times on the forum about down as mid layer for active insulation (not the best idea because when moisture hits it, and it gets wet, then it starts to lose its insulation properties and it takes a long time to dry). Because I tend to run warm, down jackets hold in so much heat and moisture with me that the armpit area has nowhere to breathe, etc. The spyfire has a different material in the armpit area and allows it to breathe in that section so much better than any other down puffy I’ve used. It’s 800 fill and doesn’t take up much space. While I won’t wear this as a mid layer for riding, this is the only down jacket that I will wear as a mid layer for other things. It packs up well (doesn’t take up much space).
Again, I am sorry for not directly answering your question. If this is of no value, my bad.

This does help a lot thank you. Bibs + a true shell will be new to me for next season (always have worn pants + mapped insulation jacket). Just checked out the Kuhl jacket as I'm looking for something with no hood. More than likely whatever synthetic or down layer I pick up I wont use aside from the coldest of cold days. Base layer + bib + grid fleece + shell will hopefully be all I need for most days.

 

I have the re up down puffy (not the hoddie one). Its definitely fit like a layer made to go under another layer. It packs up real small into its own pocket and i leave it in my split board vest as more of an emergency thing. Wore it at the resort under a hoodie on a -5 degree F day and was feeling pretty comfortable. Wouldn’t plan on wearing that on a normal day. It has a nice stretch to it too. I would say it depends on how you want to use it.

 

I run base layer, bibs and shell on any day above 25 degrees F. A fleece on top and I’m about to pass out from being too warm. Bibs are really good at keeping heat in.

 

Patagonia makes the best puffy for mid-layer uses. They are warm, lightweight, sized to layer and pack down to nothing. However if you plan to where it as a primary layer I would pick something else because the fabric is rather fragile.

 

Agree the Patagonia stuff is awesome. I have the nanopuff and it’s amazing at adding warmth but also doesn’t get too warm. Jones outerwear is good but totally overpriced compared to what else is out there.

 

goes on big discounts though. Got a peak bagger jacket for 110 and the puffy I only got because of how cheap it was. I don’t really like puffies but its good for packing.

 

All the main options are on sale currently - some heavily discounted

Re Up: $167
Nano Puff: $142
Spyfire: $181

 

Personally I'd go for something like the Patagonia nano air, North face Ventrix, or Backcountry Wolverine Cirque, over a more traditional puffer like the nano puff. I want breathable, washable, no fuss. Unless you're riding really cold like Surgeon on the regular. Sounds like down can work in that case.

 

Down is good, until it gets wet, and then you become cold.

If the down is treated to be waterproof, then you stand a chance.

 

When it's cold, I add a vest with synthetic insulation on the chest and back and fabric on the sides. This is over a base, thin waffle fleece, and bib and under a non-insulated shell. This style of vest has more leeway than a full-coverage top and the uninsulated sides help keep things regulated as the day warms up.

I also wearing body armor up over my base, which is why the waffle fleece is thin. Without armor, I'd probably wear a thicker waffle fleece.

 

Its simple purchases like this that drive me nuts - analysis paralysis

 

Buy the one that speaks to you lol. None of these companies are making puffies that dont ‘work’. They are all probably having them made at the same or similar factories and everything. You’ll be warm. But i try my best to just go for the sale and not think to much about finding the perfect one because it will drive you crazy, and in the end wont change much.

 

Went with the Jones Re Up - found it in my size on sale for $75 on backcountry (retail is $299) it's reddish / maroon but for that price who cares!

 

I'm very happy with the jacket from revolution race: https://www.revolutionrace.com/men/jackets/winter-jackets/flex-stretch-down-jacket-men?Color=2798

I never use it snowboarding however, far too warm. Love it for paragliding or just hiking in the mountains. It folds up really small as well.

 

Little late to the game but for others who may view this thread, I use the Rab Keon and love it. Like other options above it has breathable panels along the pits to allow moisture to escape and also uses hydrophobic down for added moisture management. Really warm for its size and packs down to nothing. More of a lightweight down midlayer, you’d probably want something a little thicker for super cold conditions but the sweat management is top notch. Only complaint I have is it doesn’t have pockets but for its intended purpose they really aren’t needed. Just sucks to wear as an outer layer, but again it’s not really made to be an outer layer.

 

This thing is super warm, breathable, synthetic (don't worry about moisture), and has excellent construction. No leaking feathers.

Insulated Jacket for Winter - Lightweight Insulated Jacket - Skyline

Get ready for low temperatures and snow with our winter jackets from Skyline. Our lightweight insulated jackets are created using 3D weaving technology.

skylineouterwear.ca

Prices are in CAD.

 

Jones Re Up arrived today - extremely lightweight and packable, inner chest pocket is a nice feature as well. Overall construction is very high end and has 750 fill power. Everyone was right, I threw it on with just a t-shirt and shell and was was hot, I can only imagine this with base layer + bibs + whatever else. Better have it and not use it vs need it and not have it I guess. Plus the sale price was insane.

 

Thoughts on vest vs full jacket for midlayer? Switching to shells for the first time and considering picking up a vest but I have a perfectly good patagonia nano puff jacket that'll fit.

 

Personal preference. with no sleeves on a vest, the pit vents on a jacket when you unzip them to expose it will get more air into the body.

 

Down vest still feels to me like the way to go. Warmest for the weight, packs down to nothing in a backpack. I wouldn't want to be stuck in it all day though.

I'm 100% of the time in thin poly T, plus thin to medium fleece. Down vest if it's cold, then hard shell and backpack.

 

Nano Air Light Patagonia - the most warm and breathable puffy, they make pants, hoody, vest versions.
Problem with downs that they are not breathable and get wet pretty quick, and when wet, they don't insulate