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Moving from 2009 Burton Custom, what's next? Do I even bother?

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7.1K views 8 replies 7 participants last post by  bigapplenick  
#1 · (Edited)
Hi Folks, I'm trying to get a feel for what's changed in the last year, and if it'll even make a difference for someone like me!


A little about me:

  • Currently riding a 2009 Burton Custom on 2011 Cartel EST Bindings.
    • Size 10.5 Wide boot (Salomon) and 160something board.
    • 5' 11" 225lb rider, but i fluctuate between 220 and 235 depending on the week, like most people.
  • Strong athletic background, bike and ski racer, ultra-marathon runner, ice climber. early 30s age.
  • 1st season on a board, I got this board in 2011 from a friend (free, used) and never took up riding (skier for 25 years)
  • I decided this year I was finally going to learn to ride, and i'm a solid Intermediate, trending towards advanced rider. I've been very lucky to have good teachers, and have progressed quickly. It does mean i learned a lot of really painful lessons really quickly, but that's life.
  • No switch skills to speak of, I can barely stand, but my regular riding (goofy) is good. Clean carves, good transitions, still working on tighter turns and scrubbing speed in trees, i still get a little nervous in tight spaces vs ski's.
  • I live in New England (Boston), but travel west with some regularity to ski (roughly10-15 days a year in JH or Big Sky). So my snow conditions are super varied.
  • No interest in Park riding, i'm a backcountry/powder/cat ski guy, so the only reason i'd be interested in park, is to be more comfortable on large natural drops somewhere else.

I get TONS of compliments on my 2009 Custom, which is both flattering and surprising, so i have no external, nor internal, motivation to ditch it. It's a little old and the base is a bit beat up, but people seem to love the old style designs (pre block letter 2010 year) and I agree, I think it's really nice looking.

I've been very out of date on snowboard tech in the 10 years that i've had (and didn't use) this board, but it's been working fine for me. I have felt the camber curse of the caught-edge before, twice, and slightly cracked my right kneecap last month by taking a super rough face-plant on Wachusett ice. Been back a couple nights a week since then without it happening, but i learned a pretty valuable lesson at the time about edges.

Ok, so here is my question:

So I'm wondering, what's the point in getting anything newer? Will a 2022 Custom ride better? Will 10 year newer EST Bindings work better? Right now, when i find the 2009 board online, it shows as a true-twin cambered board. Today's Custom is semi-directional. For a rider with no switch skills, would that theoretically make me more confident because of how the board is built? Have camber profiles changed that much in 10 years that i'd be more confident with fewer "oh shit" moments?

I've done a fair amount of googling, but it's hard to find a clean answer to "have snowboards actually gotten better, or is this mostly marketing" question? And if so, does a newer Custom make sense for a 1-board quiver for a guy who rides all over the USA, but not even remotely at an expert or pro level?

Thanks in advance, I hope I was able to provide the right details to get the "no bullshit" answer.
 
#2 ·
Couple thoughts, if you don't have any switch skills and aren't regularly out there trying to develop them a directional board will be a better compliment to your current riding style and won't have to make the design compromises a twin makes. I think bindings have come a long way in the last 10 years in comfort, design and features; may be new bindings will be night and day different for you, maybe they won't. At 10 years old I would buy new bindings both for the upgrades and to get away from the brittle plastics of your current bindings. I'm amazed you haven't needed to start replacing straps and ladders etc. As far as boards go, if you can afford it, of course you need a new board. Now's the time to find something that matches your riding style, current weight, and has the modern features you like. Yes there is a ton of new tech in current boards compared to 2009. You didn't mention how old they are or the fit, but given the vintage of your other gear, you likely need new boots. While you're getting new boots I'd highly recommend following the wider sport fitting video. Having the right size boot will have the biggest impact on your riding and I would prioritize them over a new board, or bindings. The newer customs are fine boards and there are tons of other options out there that sit in the same category, brand and model will really come down to your personal preference and taste.

If you really want to see first hand how far bindings and boards have come I'd suggest spending the money on a high end demo. You'll get to experience things without being fully invested. Even better some shops with will allow you to demo multiple boards bindings and will apply the demo price toward your purchase.

Last thought, your current board while old sounds like it is still in good shape and working for you. There isn't necessarily a reason to get rid of it. Instead as you look to add a new board, consider adding something that compliments your current board and adds a specialty ie carving, float, short fat
 
#3 ·
Great points all around, and i'll clarify.

  • Just because I suck at switch, doesn't mean my goal isn't to get better, totally fair miscommunication on my part.
    • I've just triaged riding goofy in my 1st year on a board, especially after cracking my kneecap a couple weeks ago (I fly to JH on Tuesday, so i couldn't risk any more bad falls while working on switch for the sake of learning a new skill, right now it's just pain, but making it worse could impact mobility)
  • The bindings have clearly degraded and frayed a bit, the white plastic is yellow, and the toe straps have cracks in them. But for the moment, it's all holding.
  • Boots wise, they were also new, and unused, since 2011. Salomon Synapse Wides. At the time I had a partnership with Salomon through another sport, so they were free, but i molded custom insoles for them at the beginning of this season.
    • Honestly, these have been great; except the speed lace system is absolutely garbage and comes loose all the time. It really sucks to be improving your carving and feel your leg come loose, causing you to have to work so much more for the same curve.
    • But since they fit well, i'm just going to order some straps to tighten them down a bit better for now.
    • I have 10.5E feet with high insteps and monster calves from running, so i'm SUPER hesitant to rock the boat on boots until absolutely necessary.
  • As a biker, we have a saying, N+1, the answer is always how many bikes you have, plus 1 more. I'm super open to "adding" to my stable, I was just trying to think of a new board to build off of, and to make it easier to travel with.
  • Money wise, i'm not a guy who cares about price as much as he cares about value. I think a lot of people buy things for ego trips, or to look a certain way. If it's the most expensive board on the market, but it's also the best for me, i'm happy to buy it. But if there is (and there usually is) a line of diminishing returns, I have no interest.
  • I am absolutely going to demo some stuff in JH and Big Sky in the next 2 weeks while i'm out there, this feedback has been helpful in setting the right expectations.
 
#4 ·
One common and entirely untrue misconception about directional boards is that you can't ride switch on them. What is true, is that riding switch on a twin may be easier due to the more natural feel, balance and placement of the side cut and yes sometimes even the shape of the tail. So, if you spend the bulk of your time riding in the normal direction and aren't launching, or landing a lot of jumps switch a directional board will be be better overall for you.

Rule of thumb on the life span of most boots is about 60-90 days
 
#5 ·
I don't think a newer board of the same type will be significantly better.

Newer bindings will be. They're more comfortable and just overall better than they were ten years ago.

New boots will make the biggest difference in all likelihood.

If you're going to get a new board, I'd look at something a little more directional like the Deep Thinker to complement rather than replace your Custom. That way you've got powder conditions covered and can have a directional board for when that makes sense. You're also a good candidate for a Flight Attendant, which is a pretty stiff charger but would ride well at your weight and level of athleticism.
 
#6 ·
I just got a new board coming from a similar situation - 2008 burton custom X and C60 bindings and boots from roughly the same era. TOTL gear from the time…

My new board is a bit frivolous - it’s a powder board (for the east coast, ha). Super flexy, rocker, set back. It’s the opposite of my custom X (which is still love).

As others have said, things have evolved a lot. My new bindings are simpler and a bit more comfortable - but MY GOODNESS boots are now both lighter, convenient AND comfortable?!? Why didn’t anyone send me the memo?

A higher end demo sounds like a good idea. As much as I like my powder board, I’m looking to replace my custom X with something more all mountain (which is, sadly, still the best looking board I’ve ever seen in my opinion). I might try to locate a high end demo too…
 
#7 ·
Hmm good question.

In my opinion, boards On AVERAGE have gotten significantly better. Like... you can get a relatively not so good average board now and it be better than your average board from 10yrs ago.

But really good SHAPES with good/decent tech (like Custom X, Custom and the legendary Malolo and Fish) haven't improved THAT much. If you get on a 2022 Custom X it is lighter, less aggressive but equally capable than the old ones. But it isn't night and day when you take into account what people get used to. Same w the Custom...

Bindings are WAY better. So much more comfortable, lighter, better straps and buckles, etc). Also the plastic in bindings degrades even without use. Boards mostly get beat up and destroyed from use not as much from degrading (unless you store them terribly).

Anyways... instead of getting a new Custom which will be better, but not $700 better than an older one.... get a new board/shape which will be better than the Custom for what you actually want to ride, and the $ goes into the new shape/concept.

For example, a Ride Warpig is not "better" than a Custom... but the shape, flex and overall concept has the potential to blow you away. Same with stuff like a Yes Optimistic, Yes Greats (or other assyms)... or Burton freeride and Family Tree stuff which provides tons of opportunities like 3D Double Dog or Deep Thinker and the Hometown Hero, which kinda feels like a Custom-ish but will be waaaaay better in powder. And the 3D is just a completely new experience.

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#8 · (Edited)
Interesting question.

There are a couple of things to consider. Firstly, in my opinion, board technologie didn't change much in the last ~15 years. If you like camber boards, I'd argue there is not much in it with a new board. The most "advancement" has been made in terms of camber types aka camber vs rocker vs hybrid designs. Boards have generally gotten a bit softer and easier to ride though - which is a good thing in my book. Although, there is definately a trend back towards traditional camber or "almost full camber" boards because they are simply better ;) The new camber boards are more reactive and lively and less "plankish". If you like to try something other than camber, I would say yes: get something new but demo it first if you can. Trying a new camber board can be worth it as well though - just don't expect a night and day difference.

I had your exact Custom model a few years back and I remember it beeing quite stiff compared to modern boards but meomry can be deceiving in that aspect. I still have a Burton Uninc from 2007, which I still ride on occasion and I really don't miss anything when I ride it compared to my newer boards... If anything, the older boards are of a better quality than the newer ones - my model lasted 15 years after all and still looks great. Todays boards are generally more fragile and get banged up faster than the old boards used to. Back in the day boards (at least the expensive, high quality ones) were built like tanks whereas with todays boards more often than not, I can feel the cost-cutting going on in modern production. The newer, "greener" materials like epoxy may have something to do with the degraded toughness of boards as well. On the flipside, this generally makes todays boards lighter (although my Uninc is an exception to this rule since it's one of the lighter boards I own) and they are less expensive than 10 years ago.

There is a general trend towards more mellow, more accessable flex patterns. In general, the industry has been trying to make everything more comfortable, especially boots and bindings. If that's a good thing is personal taste really, IMO it is but it brings some downsides with it. Stuff just doesn't last as long as it used to. I think the better comfort and performance is worth it though.

Since you already know, that you are an E-width (I understand that you are sure that you measured your feet correctly?), buying new boots may be difficult (I know because I'm an E-width as well). Otherwise I would have agreed with drblast and have said that you should get new boots first.
You only have very few options still: Getting newer Salomon E-Width models or trying some Adidas boots if you can still find them (I currently use those, they are far from perfect but the best boots I had on my feet so far). If the new Salomon won't fit your feet, I would probably keep your boots a little longer and hope that the industry will bring out more wide boots in the future... There are also Burton wide boots. They are EEE- width so technically, they would be too wide for you but I'd say try them since too wide isn't as big of a problem as too narrow. You also mentioned, that you have huge calves - which would fit great with Burton boots since they are pretty wide in the ankle and calve area.
This year 32 did make some wide boots as well but the aren't specified as to how wide they are exacatly yould be worth a try though.

The only easy request to answer is regarding bindings: Simple, get new ones!
Honestly, if I were you, I would be terrified on every trip because some plastic strap could break at any time and my day would be ruined (well for the very least it would be really annoying to try to get a spare part somewhere on the mountain. Of course you could just replace all fragile parts of your current bindings with new ones from Burton.
I have done this with a Burton C02 form around 2007 (I rode it with my Uninc until I discovered that Union minidisc bindings work on them) and it worked out pretty good.
I actually still use the highback with a newer baseplate and I never had to replace the buckles - they still work! The newer buckles aren't as good as the old ones but still fine and lighter. Burton's bindings really were bulletproof back in the day. They are still good quality but the cost cutting is also noticeable here compered to 10 year old models. I probably would still ride them but the old non relfex baseplate feels like a plank now that I'm used to reflex and EST. Also today's straps are better.

The performance of the newer bindings would be a bit better but since you already have EST ones, it won't be night and day. Here the trend of the boards towards a softer more comfortable feel continues but with bindings, it's a good thing IMO. I love Burton bindings and I think their reflex tech is great but EST is even better. So I guess you could tidy up your bindings and don't miss out on too much but it's hard to get the replacement parts needed for free or a good price these days and if you have to buy them, you are looking at 50 bucks or more pretty fast, which IMO is just not worth to invest in such an old binging.

Getting new bindings, new boots or a new board might only be a minor improvement but all three things together would definately make a far better ride than what you currently have. I'd recommand trying to get new boots first- if you can find ones, that fit you well since that would probably make the biggest difference.
Getting a new Custom would probably also be just a small improvement (even though I'd still say it's worth it to get a newer board for the probably? banged up base and edges alone) but if you like to get a completely new shaped board, that would make a huge differenc and would be well worth the effort and investement.
New bindings are more a necessatiy at this point rather than an exciting purchase but still, it would be the first thing on my purchase list - for safety reasons alone, don't let a little plastic piece ruin your day.
 
#9 ·
It sounds like I was looking for similar things (with a twist), so here's my thoughts and where I ended up. Like you, I've ridden camber boards all my life, and new rockers & hybrid camber profiles caught my eye so I've developed a bit of a quiver. I began with a 164W custom X 11/12 m5 hardware. it is fast - the slight weight savings is irrelevant vs the new. (you should keep riding your custom x)... I thern tried a 14 158W custom flying v, and a newer 21 custom fv, the 14 is much flexier and more playful - the 2020 is more stiff. both carve well, however the fv is not beneficial to me, since i have good technique and ride directionally - BUT, without a doubt i WILL be working on my fakie riding - the 14 158W is awesome for it, and I worked on some fakie with it. STILL not satisfied, I felt like I COULD fine a board that carved as well as the X,but was more fun a less CONSTANT effort - and since I adore asymetry, I tried a gnu riders choice c3 (rcc3) in 157.5 - with my size 12s I ride it +24/-18 and it ROCKS. my conclusion is that I'll always take the gnu. if i yake 2 boards it'll be the gnu + custom x 164w for pow float, OR it'll be the gnu + 2020 or 2014 158W so i can practice fakie riding more