[Zee]

Nothing wrong with getting a royalty for something like this... it is a legitimate and significant design change from the original reverse rocker.

Other legitimate snowbaording patents that I can think of... 3D Inserts, TBT, Karakoram, Voile. With the exception of 3D, all of these moved the sport forward, and had they not been patented, the originator of them would likely have been crushed and sent into oblivian. That being said, NS buoilds one hell of a board, so I dont see them going away, patent or not. It is the ONLY board I will buy at full price....

Unlike the most successful patent troll ever. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTP,_Inc.
I read that NTP patent, it was pretty flimsy, and in technology the concepts are so much easier than actually implementing. I think RIM set a bad precedent by paying them off.

 

[extra0]

I rode one of the first 50 skate bananas when they first were able to be demo'd those things were bent in the center only, tips were as flat as a pancake and the board rode like shit.

interesting how lib slowly kept morphing that original design to what is now, essentially, RC...but kept selling the tweaked models as BTX. Once they got it close to Never Summer's design, they claimed it "C2".

wonder if NS will try/be able to get lib to buy a license for their (finally) patented tech

 

[vote4pedro]

The fact that they got the patent is pretty strong. The burden to prove otherwise will fall on the plaintiffs.

The plaintiff in this case would be Never Summer. They're the ones who would sue in order to defend their patent. But the burden of proof is the same for either side. Whoever the jury believes has the stronger argument, even if it's just slightly stronger for one side or the other, will win the case.

 

[killclimbz]

Excuse me you are right. It would fall on the defendants if NS brought a suit forward. You are right. Neversummer would have to prove they have a patent (easy) and that the defendants were using their tech.

The patent holder is going to have at least initially the stronger hand. I just don't see this as being an easy one for other companies to weasel out of. As I said, the chances are no one wants this to go to a court room because at that point anything can happen. Worst case for Neversummer is that their patent is viewed invalid. Worst case for say Mervin (or Burton, Rome, whomever) is that they are ordered to pay millions of dollars in restitution. Of course legal fees will be huge and I believe in civil suits, if you lose, most of the time you end up paying the other sides lawyers fees too.

My guess is if Neversummer asks for a fee they will get it, unless it's unreasonable.

 

[Milo303]

My guess is if Neversummer asks for a fee they will get it, unless it's unreasonable.

Moral of this whole thing. Never Summer does not strike me as a super cut throat company that will go after the most they can possibly get, like some other companies might...

 

[killclimbz]

I agree. As a company they are not going for the gold like big B. They are focused on running a successful, sustainable company, not rapid growth and a huge market share.

 

[vote4pedro]

Most patent disputes are settled with a licensing fee when there's clear evidence that the company with the patent was solely responsible for developing the technology. I'm not sure if that's the case here. The companies involved would have much more information than we do. If other companies were legitimately developing something similar, then they should have the documentation and testimony to back it up if they're sued. I think it would depend how strongly they feel about it. If they did follow Never Summer's lead, they'd likely agree to a licensing fee. But if they believe they got there on their own, they'd probably fight it. Ego and pride come into play as much as money here.

 

[killclimbz]

That's a decent summation of what could happen here.

 

[BurtonAvenger]

Actually they're going to have me enforce patent disputes I start by mocking the company on my site, then escalate it with death threats from the owner, finally I just break their knee caps.

 

[vote4pedro]

once again, u speak of which u do not understand. its easy to copy & paste a line out of a page but do u know anything about this particular patent case? if not, do u care to b educated or do u want to continue talking like a fool?

in a lawsuit, the party w/ the patent is at an advantage. ESPECIALLY when the wording of the lawsuit specifically addresses what is RC and C2 falls directly underneath this verbiage.

now, back to THIS case. did u know that the industry was given a chance to challenge this patent before it was approved? quilksilver and other companies had their lawyers on this case for months trying to get the USPTO to deny the patent. they submitted their claims on why it should not be. mervin for example brought up the fact that it had been done on a board prior to NS's RC. however, despite these protests and challenges, it was ruled in NS's favor. all of your argument has already been addressed and thrown out the window. that's how they got their patent and that's what the court will rule as well unless there are new evidences by which they can appeal to. the same type of subject matter experts that reviews the patent pending cases will be called upon in actual court proceedings.

quiksilver threw big shot lawyer to represent mervin's side of the case still lost. they are not pleased about this approval... they basically said - AND I QUOTE word for word - "if they want to F with us, we'll F with them" - hinting that somehow they are going to challenge that MTX is their patent and NS's vario grip is in violation of that...etc
i'm not going to sit here and predict what NS is going to do or how a lawsuit will play out. but the case that you presented is irrelevant and has already been discussed and tossed out during the approval process.

I've been polite humoring your ignorance, but your childish outbursts are wearing thin. You obviously don't have even a basic understanding of law. You didn't know what grounds a patent could be challenged on. You didn't know the standard of proof in a civil dispute. And you don't understand the patent process.

When a patent is submitted, there is currently no thorough means for the patent to be challenged by third parties. The benefit of the doubt is given to the individual or company applying for the patent with the understanding that it can later be reversed in court.

Many companies, particularly high-tech companies like Cisco, are currently pushing for patent reform law to allow questionable patents to be thoroughly challenged within the Patent and Trademark Office. They want to avoid the cost of litigation later. The flip side of this is that individuals and smaller companies prefer to keep it the way it is. They fear that if larger companies are able challenge their patents before they're issued, they'll overwhelm the process and effectively bully them out of the market.

If you want to learn more about patent law, I can direct you to some sites to read. If you want to keep pretending you know what you're talking about, by all means keep pulling shit out of your ass. It's good for a laugh

 

[HoboMaster]

You guys can piss all over each other for all I care, have a blast. I think the fact of the matter is that it will never get to the lawsuit stage. Like others have said I see them using it as a bragging right for sales, and maybe to make a little money off of licensing fees. NeverSummer is not a multi-national conglomerate run by stockholders who could care less about the product. It's not Burton. I just don't see them freaking out and chancing everything by enacting a bunch of lawsuits against companies bigger then them.

 

[vote4pedro]

You guys can piss all over each other for all I care, have a blast. I think the fact of the matter is that it will never get to the lawsuit stage. Like others have said I see them using it as a bragging right for sales, and maybe to make a little money off of licensing fees. NeverSummer is not a multi-national conglomerate run by stockholders who could care less about the product. It's not Burton. I just don't see them freaking out and chancing everything by enacting a bunch of lawsuits against companies bigger then them.

I agree. There's a good chance that they patented it for bragging rights and marketing. They also may have done it in part to protect themselves so that bigger companies can't turn around and file a similar patent and try to push them around. If they have a rock solid case, they may try to pursue licensing. But they don't sound like the kind of company that wants to start suing everybody.

 

[jpb3]

Holy shit, I had no idea their were so many patent lawyers on this board! IMO NS fkin rocks and so does Lib but I guess pretty soon we'll start seeing stickers with the Lib stick boy pissing on the NS eagle/falcon

P.S. Phillip Hergash is fkin hilarious, and I mean HILARIOUS!

 

[Milo303]

I guess pretty soon we'll start seeing stickers with the Lib stick boy pissing on the NS eagle/falcon

That made me laugh ( =

Nice post

 

[BurtonAvenger]

I got a tape measure if you guys need it.

 

[Snowfox]

I got a tape measure if you guys need it.

You need to be able to see something to measure it...

 

[vote4pedro]

u r so ignorant i cant even begin to fathom where u get ur ridiculous ideas from. of COURSE patents can be challenged prior to be approved. i've been in this process hundreds of times and some internet thug who googles and read a few sites try to tell me what i've personally done otherwise? lmao :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Your main problem is you're an idiot. Your other problem is you don't realize just how much of an idiot you are.

I'll give you a clue. Not that you'll understand a word I say. But I'll do it anyway for my own amusement.

Once again, when a patent is submitted, there is currently no thorough means for the patent to be challenged by third parties.

The key word here is thorough. Under current patent law, it is entirely up to the patent examiner to research the patent's claim. He or she must find any prior examples of similar technology and determine if the invention was obvious or not. With about half a million patent applications submitted every year, there is currently a 3-year backlog and patent examiners can only dedicate a few hours to each case. Adding to their difficulty, they cover a broad range of patent applications and generally are not experts in the field in which they must make a determination.

The US patent office recently undertook a pilot project testing a peer review process where experts could weigh in and challenge a patent before it is awarded. It began in 2007 and ended last year. A limited number of patent applications went through this process, allowing greater third party challenges, but it still had its limitations.

Third parties could submit examples of prior art, but they could not directly argue their case to the patent examiner. The patent applicant however could, giving them an advantage.

The process also focused mainly on prior technology with little focus on whether or not the submission was obvious.

Because patent examiners are overworked with limited resources to do their work, thousands of bad patents are issued every year that are later overturned in court.

I realize there may be several words in my post you don't understand. Thorough being among them. I'd suggest you try dictionary.com for the more difficult ones. For bonus points, write them out in crayon and stick them on the fridge. Your mom will be proud her special boy is working on his vocabulary :thumbsup:

 

[legallyillegal]

Though I am intrigued by Phillip's (Mike's) statement about Banana's having slight camber on the tips of their boards originally. I didn't get on a banana in their first generation so maybe they did. Lib had certainly abandoned it before then.

mervin did release some BTX boards with a C2-style camber before they started marketing it

 

[fattrav]

I got a tape measure if you guys need it.

I have a feeling that a tape measure wont work. And to tie in the whole patent thing, this may be of more use...

Method for measuring vagina dimensions - Patent 3938504

 

[john doe]

u r so ignorant i cant even begin to fathom where u get ur ridiculous ideas from. of COURSE patents can be challenged prior to be approved. i've been in this process hundreds of times and some internet thug who googles and read a few sites try to tell me what i've personally done otherwise? lmao :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Your main problem is you're an idiot. Your other problem is you don't realize just how much of an idiot you are.

I'll give you a clue. Not that you'll understand a word I say. But I'll do it anyway for my own amusement.

Once again, when a patent is submitted, there is currently no thorough means for the patent to be challenged by third parties.

The key word here is thorough. Under current patent law, it is entirely up to the patent examiner to research the patent's claim. He or she must find any prior examples of similar technology and determine if the invention was obvious or not. With about half a million patent applications submitted every year, there is currently a 3-year backlog and patent examiners can only dedicate a few hours to each case. Adding to their difficulty, they cover a broad range of patent applications and generally are not experts in the field in which they must make a determination.

The US patent office recently undertook a pilot project testing a peer review process where experts could weigh in and challenge a patent before it is awarded. It began in 2007 and ended last year. A limited number of patent applications went through this process, allowing greater third party challenges, but it still had its limitations.

Third parties could submit examples of prior art, but they could not directly argue their case to the patent examiner. The patent applicant however could, giving them an advantage.

The process also focused mainly on prior technology with little focus on whether or not the submission was obvious.

Because patent examiners are overworked with limited resources to do their work, thousands of bad patents are issued every year that are later overturned in court.

I realize there may be several words in my post you don't understand. Thorough being among them. I'd suggest you try dictionary.com for the more difficult ones. For bonus points, write them out in crayon and stick them on the fridge. Your mom will be proud her special boy is working on his vocabulary :thumbsup:

I always tend to side with the guy that doesn't use r and u as words and can remember to capitalize the first word in a sentance.