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For the love of fuck, wait till n.s. says what this means to them.

I think it must mean alot, looking at the sticker that came on my board it says "pat. pending"

Plus its prorbably alot of money to patent somthing like a snowboard design.

I just cant wait till Vince or Angry post somthing up. See what n.s. wants to do with it.

Who the fuck knows. Clearly legend and pedro..... dumbfucks
 
We can all say what we want but it does appear Legends was there during the patent process. I got a feeling his summary of what is going on is way more accurate and on point than any of us.

Sounds like Mervin is going to keep on fighting this. For a company that is hell of happy to make people pay a license fee to them, they sure will not pay one out to anyone. Look at their crappy splitboard for example.

Ultimately, barring the challenge process, it's up to Neversummer to decide how they want to proceed with this. I don't think even they really know where they want to go. Hence the reason you haven't seen any statement from Vman or any others on the matters. This is the type of thing that it's going to take months, probably years for it to completely shake out.
 
mervin did release some BTX boards with a C2-style camber before they started marketing it
I'm sure they did. When is the question? Did they release these boards before Neversummer was working on or had released their RC stuff? My understanding is that the original release of the banana was not a C2 board. More along the lines of K2's flatline tech at the nose/tail.
 
I was always under the impression that patents are first come first serve (generally speaking) so long as it isn't something that is widely available already. I'm sure there have been multiple instances when two people/companies invented very similar products/designs simultaneously albeit completely separate from each other.

So with NS's case, wouldn't this mean they were granted the patent because they were the first ones to effectively get their final (working) design to the market? So this would mean that Lib Tech has no case against this patent because their final design, C2, came after NS's RC.

I mean, if that's not the case... couldn't I claim that I came up with Post-its before 3M because I used to use stick glue notes all over my room prior to Post-its (example, I didn't really do that lol)?

Yikes... patent laws are confusing.
 
In the end, you just got to hope that all of this should be for the "betterment" of the sport and not to stuff the pockets of litigation teams.
This is my major concern about this situation. I really don't feel that any company should patent a camber design. It's just too widespread and is something that came about naturally. I mean, Shane McConkey didn't go all wild and try to patent anything for his rocker skis. I still say he is the one that opened our eyes to what rocker profiles can do on skis and snowboards.

I understand patents for very unique designs like MTX and ICS/EST, but not things like camber profiles. Maybe if the camber profile is radical like making it resemble a squiggly line perhaps.

We just don't know for sure where this NS patent is going to lead. We do not know the type of stir it is going to cause. Licensing, legal objections, etc... none of this is any good for the riders. It's expensive.
 
Don't forget Leo that Mervin tried to patent this same tech.

As far as Shane and rocker tech. Don't forget the K2 Gyrator was a late 80's early 90's board back in the day with a full rocker profile. We just didn't catch on back then.
 
Don't forget Leo that Mervin tried to patent this same tech.

As far as Shane and rocker tech. Don't forget the K2 Gyrator was a late 80's early 90's board back in the day with a full rocker profile. We just didn't catch on back then.
Yea, rocker was definitely around prior to Shane. I still think he is the one that opened our eyes to it though. I pretty much blew up after he showed what it can do for a rider.
 
Yeah, Shane a good proponent for rocker profiles. Also, back in the day when the Gyrator came out, we were still fighting for resort access. Not exactly the spot for what was a pure powder stick.
 
Just because i say that "apples are green" and "apples are red" doesn't make me an expert on apples. Anyone can state basic facts found off the internet. I'm asking if you know anything about this particular case? If you don't, then STFU because you sound like a internet kid quoting a thesaurus or dictionary to make himself look smart.

First of all, there are more than one way to challenge pending patents. What you have referred to is just one option where only the examiner or the party holding the patent can file an interference proceeding. Any patent lawyer with any real world experience would know other options by which to protest. This is where your Googling can only go so far son :laugh:. You do realize that Mervin has patent pending applications in the same space right? Patent owners may alert an examiner to the existence of interfering claims in a pending application. Just because you can't initiate interference proceedings doesn't mean you are not entitled to call the examiners attention to claims in a pending application that interfere with your issued patent.

Secondly, what actually happened in this case is that they initiated a protest proceeding against the pending application. A protest may be filed by "any member of the public" against a pending application, and it will be matched with the application file if it sufficiently identifies the patent application. Protesters are entitled to submit written explanations describing the relevance of all of patents/publications/other information that forms the basis of the protest against a pending application.
How are you going to argue that something can't happen when it already did? that's the most laughable part of your argument. It's like I know Obama was elected and became president and you are sitting here arguing that the US will never elect a black president. Just because your argument seemed plausible does not mean it is true or can't happen.

Finally, now that the patent HAS been granted. Mervin is still fighting it through re-examination proceedings. so you are incorrect in saying that lawsuit is the only next step for both parties to continue because they don't have to go through that litigation process just yet. instead they are challenging the patent through the re-xam statue which grants them more rights and ability to adversarial challenge the patentabilty of the invention. this was amended in '02 to precisely counter what you have mentioned about the lack of ability to challenge.

and yes we all know patent examiners are taxed and in shortage but u r crazy if u think politics don't play a part in this. when enuff $ and power struggle's on the line, resources are put in place to ensure high visibility cases are done more thoroughly.

Third parties are allowed to submit examples of prior art for patent examiners to review. When this occurs, the examiner will look at what was submitted. If they believe it has merit, they will reject the application temporarily, giving the applicant an opportunity to clarify or modify their application regarding the points of concern. The third party which raised the concern is not allowed to counter argue the modified application, giving the applicant a distinct advantage.

The same is true of the reexamination process. A third part may request a review of the patent if they are able to provide newly discovered examples of prior art that were not considered in the original examination process. If they attempt to resubmit the same examples as before, their request will be denied. So again, the applicant has the advantage.

Also, third parties are only allowed to submit prior art in regards to the novelty or originality of the patent request. They are not allowed to argue the obviousness of the design. Their only opportunity to do this will be in a courtroom if they are sued.

Looking at Never Summer's patent request, it was initially rejected then approved after it was modified. In all likelihood, Mervin submitted prior art that the request infringed on and NS modified their request to comply. As of today, no request for reexamination has been accepted. Mervin may have requested one, but if they're simply resubmitting the same prior art, their request will in all likelihood be denied. If NS then attempts to defend their patent against Mervin, this will end up in court.
 
mervin did release some BTX boards with a C2-style camber before they started marketing it
I'm sure they did. When is the question? Did they release these boards before Neversummer was working on or had released their RC stuff? My understanding is that the original release of the banana was not a C2 board. More along the lines of K2's flatline tech at the nose/tail.
mervin definitely started morphing their rocker design way after NS came out with RC. The "banana" marketing/buzzword was already so popular with the fan-boys, they just kept selling the newer shapes as BTX. Interesting, it wasn't until about the time they knew Travis Rice was going to endorse the new shape that they changed the name to C2.
 
no offense "john doe" but in my line of work where i'm in the court proceedings or @ client site i'm on my blackberry 90% of the time and using r and u and non-cap is a habit that is not going away any time soon
don't judge a book by its cover simply because i'm trying to be efficent :cheeky4:
It's a little late to pretend you're a lawyer. You didn't know on what grounds a patent's validity could be challenged. You didn't know the standard of proof in a civil dispute. You confused patents with copyrights. You even confused "laments" with "layman's." Perhaps you want us to believe you fetch coffee for a lawyer. Either way, I'm not impressed. Most likely, you're a pimple faced kid posting garbage while you search for more man on man action to beat off to. A word of advice. Stay in school, keep off drugs and maybe one day you'll be an unemployed douchebag with a law degree. No law school worth attending would have you. But hey, there are all kinds of law schools :thumbsup:
 
Will you two put your dicks back in your pants neither of you two know jack shit about what you're talking about and it's just become an ego stroking contest on who can get the last word in. I'll tell you right now it'll be me and you'll both cry. In other news read this and see how Mervin is dealing with shit EasyLoungin | Mervin Patent Update
 
This is my major concern about this situation. I really don't feel that any company should patent a camber design. It's just too widespread and is something that came about naturally. I mean, Shane McConkey didn't go all wild and try to patent anything for his rocker skis. I still say he is the one that opened our eyes to what rocker profiles can do on skis and snowboards.

I understand patents for very unique designs like MTX and ICS/EST, but not things like camber profiles. Maybe if the camber profile is radical like making it resemble a squiggly line perhaps.

We just don't know for sure where this NS patent is going to lead. We do not know the type of stir it is going to cause. Licensing, legal objections, etc... none of this is any good for the riders. It's expensive.
That will probably be the strongest argument against their patent. You can't patent an obvious design. While the patent is pending, third parties can only submit existing designs to argue the proposed patent is not unique. They're not able to argue that that's where the technology was heading anyway. Now that the patent was approved, if NS sues Mervin for infringement they'll be able to argue that in court. If they're successful, the patent will be declared invalid. NS could then appeal the court's decision, but an appeal is not a new trial. They would have to show that there was an error in the court proceedings, which is rare.

Personally, I don't think it'll go that far. I think they did it marketing purposes and to protect themselves. Mervin can't sue them for patent infringement when NS is the one holding the patent. I don't know much about Mervin's culture, but they sound like the more litigious company here, so it was probably a good idea.
 
Wow, Mervin is a little butt hurt on this one aren't they?

Now I am going to hypothesize here.

1. Mervin did put in a for a patent on their Banana rocker before they even started marketing it. So I don't doubt they were in years before Neversummer. I am also reading between the lines here that they really didn't apply for the rocker/camber combo. Maybe tried to amend it on their original request for patent?

2. They were able to challenge it and lost. Bummer.

3. If they do win on later appeals they are definitely going to try to stick it to the industry.

I also like how everyone thinks this patent relates to all types of rocker. It's just a rocker/camber combo. I believe Mervin may have something with the flat camber between the feet and rockered nose. This is not the design that Neversummer is using. Not sure how you would have rocker/camber with flat between the feet, but if that is what C2 is, then you can probably argue it's a different design.

One thing is for sure, this shit is going to being shaking out for a good number of years. Funny how the other companies that are doing a rocker/camber combo are keeping pretty quiet about this. Mervin does look like they are going to try to bully on this one.
 
Wow, Mervin is a little butt hurt on this one aren't they?

Now I am going to hypothesize here.

1. Mervin did put in a for a patent on their Banana rocker before they even started marketing it. So I don't doubt they were in years before Neversummer. I am also reading between the lines here that they really didn't apply for the rocker/camber combo. Maybe tried to amend it on their original request for patent?

2. They were able to challenge it and lost. Bummer.

3. If they do win on later appeals they are definitely going to try to stick it to the industry.

I also like how everyone thinks this patent relates to all types of rocker. It's just a rocker/camber combo. I believe Mervin may have something with the flat camber between the feet and rockered nose. This is not the design that Neversummer is using. Not sure how you would have rocker/camber with flat between the feet, but if that is what C2 is, then you can probably argue it's a different design.

One thing is for sure, this shit is going to being shaking out for a good number of years. Funny how the other companies that are doing a rocker/camber combo are keeping pretty quiet about this. Mervin does look like they are going to try to bully on this one.

NS's patent includes two drawings. The picture on the left is their design unweighted. You can see it has a rocker design between the bindings. The picture on the right is when it's weighted. So Mervin is being a bit misleading when they say it's flat between the bindings.

Image
 
No worries man. I get it that you had an inside view to these proceedings and thanks for sharing your thoughts. Pretty much everything I have said is conjecture. I do not represent the operations of either of these companies. Sure I like Neversummer, I have a split from them. I'm sure Neversummer had to use some tactics that Mervin found hard to swallow.

From my view, it looks like an awful lot like the small guy stood up for himself and won. Now Mervin is embarrassed and looking to get back. Something that could really blow up in their face. Besides for the announcement, from which on the forums came from members, not Neversummer, they haven't been on here gloating, blowing their horn, etc. Only Mervin has come back to "defend" themselves when they truly haven't been attacked yet. Except for not getting the patent, all the noise has been from us. Same thing at EL.

It is time to let this dog lie for a bit. Sure sounds like another round is coming.
 
NS's patent includes two drawings. The picture on the left is their design unweighted. You can see it has a rocker design between the bindings. The picture on the right is when it's weighted. So Mervin is being a bit misleading when they say it's flat between the bindings.

Image
I was just perusing the images on the patent. Good post.
 
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